Anyone want to share their way of getting the final load into chop cup/cups and balls finale? I use mis-direction/palming, but I have huge hands. I just think this is something all begining magicians should have some help with. And we are all magicians so

StreetWalker

Well I can't stand seeing a cup and ball post up here without any replies so here goes...

Misdirection is always the way to load the cups, that coupled with good technique will get the required results--the amazement of our audience. The question is what is the misdirection one chooses to use. Most employ a Malini/Vernon loading sequence. For my cup and ball routine I didn't want an explanation phase so I chose a different approach. My routine is shorter as a result, but in my opinion packs as much punch as any I'm familiar with.
BTW, Cellini doesn't load from his topit, nor his coat; there seems to have been some confusion about this elsewhere.
Just make sure that your misdirection fits in with the rest of the routine, and isn't of the "Look over there!" type and it'll all be fine.

He loads the final hat load from his topit...

His normal loads come from his pockets

There will be a lot of information on the new art of street performing video on loading styles and locations.

koz

What cups does Cellini use these days? I would have thought he uses the cups that carry his name, but after reading that those "Cellini" cups are not authorized by Mr. Cellini I'm not so sure.
Thanks.
Jim

When Cellini lectured at the Castle it looked like he was using the heavy copper Magic Inc. copies of the Ross Bertram cups.

Tom Frank, of TFM, said the Cellini was using the Phoenix cups put out by TFM (http://www.tfrankmint.com/index.htm). Tom said that Cellini preferred the Phoenix set over the one being produced in Europe and is being sold as the Cellini cuts.

Pete,
Please correct me if I'm wrong and you know otherwise, but didn't R. Bertram in fact produce the cups that Magic Inc. sold for so many years? Difference between the two is minor - most notable is the cups that bore his initials had a flat rim-- something that would be harder to produce than the rounded rim of Magic Inc., Phoenix designs, I believe, but then I don't spin metal. I seem to recall that's the reason why Ross didn't want his name in the ads and why Magic Inc. then solicited Charlie Miller's quote, after which they became known as the "Miller cups".

As far as what Cellini uses these days, Pete is right, as of one week ago Cellini was using the Magic Inc. cups. But while I don't presume to speak for Cellini it would appear that he uses what is at hand and that very well could be a set of the Phoenix cups as convenience warrants.

As far as Cellini's own design cups are concerned, they are designed to use with a servante or pouches. And as far as durability is concerned for the street worker, I don't think they have an equal. But then I'm not familiar with a lot of the cups made these days-- including the Pete Biro cups and Galli Galli designs.

No, Ross did NOT produce the Magic Inc. cups that Jay advertised as "Charlie Miller's Man's Cups."

Bertram's cups were much more delicate and better made. Jay had asked Ross if he could make up some copies, and Ross (I believe) figured Jay would just have a few made. But, in fact Jay had a large quantity spun. They were a little heavier, clunkier, and had some spin marks around them that were thought of as bad flaws by many.

They were very low priced.

I have not seen the Phoenix Cups, but they look just like the Magic Inc. cups. I know he sells a lot of "seconds" (they are on ebay all the time). Reason is I believe his spinner isn't that skilled, and the rim closures are not very good. But, like the Charlie Miller ones, I think they are fine for banging around and street use... altho they are a tad SMALL if you want to load anyting bigger than a large lemon.

The Cellini cups from Europe are the bigger size for bigger loads... but when you do bigger loads, you can't very well use your pockets, hence the use of a poacher's pouch.

My "Galli Galli" cups are a very close to a Paul Fox (R) chick cup... but different. They are big for the final loads but a little LESS THICK than Cellini or the new Gazzo cups.

Matter of fact Gazzo's first marketed cups (which I prefer over the newer ones) were not big enough for his routine, so until he had new ones made was using my cups.

His newer ones are great, for the bigger loads, but I prefer a medium size, that's why I like his first version.

The Millenium Cups are H U G E ... "The Big Gulp" and would take a beating too... a bit pricey though...

Prices: You can't complain really, I know many sell for $300-500 because the number of units you can sell is small... you can't believe how much the first set of cups costs to have made from scratch!

I have nickle plated Galli Galli cups left, but am out of the copper sets. Steven magic still has both.

The sleeper, and one I recommend for bar and close up is the Johnny Paul routine and special cups that work with sponge balls.

Get the video of Johnny Paul (Stevens video n cups and balls) and you will see what a great routine this is.

stay tooned...

I am in the presence of the cup mavens! What a wealth of knowledge. Hearing you guys talk cups is like listening to Mozart.
I have a great set of street/stage cups (Hi Pete!) What would people recommend for a mid-sized cup set for smaller settings. I would want one for lemon loads and just big enough to fit a regulation baseball, which I think is about 2.75 inches diameter.
Thanks.
Jim

I worked for many years as a magic/barman using a set of the old Johnny Paul cups (They have since been stolen and I still morn the loss these many years later). I did did Jim Ryan’s routine that used these cups. I was unaware of Johnny Paul’s routine as I was and still am in many ways a magic “outsider”. I have seen it on the Steven’s video a few years ago and all I can say is for lay people behind a bar you will not find a better routine. The Ryan routine is just as good IMHO but harder to get a hold of. These routines are simply phenomenal.

I can also vouch for Pete’s cups. I own a set of the Galli-Galli cups and will be going on my second year of using them on the street and they have held up well. They were very well made. The cups I purchased were seconds but you’d never know it. They are a thinner cup but I have not found this to be a problem at all.

The Phoenix cups are not nearly as nice as the Magic Inc. cups and the Magic Inc. cups were only O.K. when standing next to a set of Ross Bertram’s.

They also will only hold a very small lemon as a load. This is not a problem if you do a doorway act and I made good use of my Phoenix cups until I was able to upgrade.

The Phoenix cups are heavy and will take a beating. The poor workmanship does not affect the handeling and all in all they are a decent cup if you pick them up for under $100 on eBay.

The guy who makes the Phoenix cups Tom Frank, seems like a very nice guy and when I had a problem with my cups he was Johnny on the spot with customer service. Tom is also a busker and takes care of his own. I would have no problem doing business with him again.

Best,

Dan-

Tom is a great guy and friend of mine. I had never met him and he opened his home to me where he was lving so I had a place to stay when I was in his town working...great guy....

koz

Owen Magic makes a stainless steel cup that takes a Tennis Ball for final load. It is not cheap, tho... there is another cup, I thought I showed you, from Iran... but again $500.00

Let me see... hmmm... Check out Jim Riser's new cups... on his http://www.jamesriser.com http://www.bumamagic.com has new sterling silver cups for $700... Joe Porper cups...

Argh we are talking serious money here.

http://www.harries.com has pretty good ones too for under $100

Chris Reeseman has started to re-issue Rings N Things Monte cups...

Johnson Cups are going for less than retail on ebay...

There is a guy making copies of the Paul Fox cups... link on Riser site.

I just double checked the http://www.jamesriser.com site and you will see his new Jumbo Cups, just the size for a baseball. Look much like the Gazzo cups... btw, the Gazzo "old, short" cups are great for the smaller loads, but I don't know if Whit has any more to sell.

And did I ever check them out Pete!
Someone hand me a cold glass of water and wipe my forehead. I love those Riser Cups!

Whew! I loved the education I received at his site. The Beading Technique in Metal Spinning at his site is very informative.
For those who appreciate how the process improves the cup's appearance, it's a fantastic treat. I'd love to be there from start to finish.
Thank you so much for sharing that with us James Riser.

Always looking forward to your posts,

Randy Stewart

Hi guys;
Just received an email from friend Pete Biro saying there was cup talk going on - thought I'd join in. Randy talked about "being there"....I just came in from spinning an experimental set of copper cups. They are sort of a cross between my Jumbos and the Cellini cups - not as thick as the Cellinis. Yes, they hold a regulation baseball -just barely. I like to take a break from other spinning projects and make one-of-a-kind cup set now and then. I usually stick them up on ebay.

BTW - Jim Cellini was using Tom Frank's cups at his recent lecture here in Tucson. I mentioned this to a friend of mine in Europe as I had expected to see the official Cellini Cups. Apparently, the design of the cups was sold or for some reason does not belong to Cellini - so he does not use them. FYI - Tom Frank is an avid cup collector and has recently moved to Seattle from Cincinnati. He has a new magic shop in Seattle.

Some additional info on the Charlie Miller Cups (copies of the Ross Bertram Cups)....As Pete stated above, Jay asked if it would be OK to make a few copies to sell. Jay supposedly ordered a certain number meaning that number of cups. The spinner misunderstood and thought that number was for sets. When they were delivered, Jay had 3 times the number of cups he thought he ordered! BTW - the original spinning chuck for the real Ross Bertram Cups is still alive and well.

That's all for now.
Jim

Thanks for the reply and information Pete and Jim. I'm glad to have finally settled that in my mind.

I have received several PM's asking to see the new experimental cups. So, even though they are not completely polished, here they are:
http://www.jamesriser.com/Special/Cups.html

Jim

Jello,

Wow, Jim those cups are very deceptive. Although they can hold a baseball. . . .they don't look like it. . .so the baseball will seem even more enormous coming out of the cup. Great job.

Oh yeah, how is your son's band doing? They definately have a look hope the sound is as good. . .and it's good that you support him through all this. I was the rebellious, band guy in my family and I don't think they quite understood it all.

Afterall, the cover doesn't ALWAYS tell you how the book reads - eh?

Magically,
Daniel
Dbull@austin.rr.com
Austin, TX

Pete,
Do you have a link for these cups?
Thanks
Andrew

I posted somewhere else but no one has respond so here I go again.

Has anyone experimented with the cups from http://www.cupsandballs.nl

Thanks,

Carlos,
They are very pretty cups but a little too pricey for me right now.
Jim