Hi guys.

I had a quick question about learning this wonderful classic. I'm new to Slydini's work, and think I've decided to buy The Annotated Magic of Slydini, which includes his silk routine. However, it does not include the silks.

I've looked at older posts regarding which silks to use. I saw that someone said that the Magic Maker silks were good to practice with, but to use the Palmer silks in performance. I've also come across Tony Clark's DVD "Sly Scarves", which teaches the routine and includes silks with it.

http://www.tonyclarkmagic.com/magicshop/......ct_id=55

It says "includes silks and 2 free gimmicks. Are the silks that are required for this routine gimmicked, or are they just high quality silks? I'm kind of confused now.

Also, how long do the silks last before you need to replace them?

Any help is much appreciated.

Matthew

As I recall the two 'gimmicks' are only for use with the Slydini version of the 'sympathetic silks' included in this DVD as a bonus routine.

The two silks included are not gimmicked per se. They are good practice silks. Palmer silks remain as the best I've ever seen.

Matthew! I'm in a bit of a rush, right now, but I will try to get back here this evening and try to fill you in a bit on the VANISHING SQUARE KNOT. It precedes Quintino Marucci's (Tony's real name!) time by about 500 years. I learned it in 1941 (I was 9)and have been doing it for more years than I care to count' WATCH THIS SPACE!!!

Tony Clark's DVD and necessary handkerchiefs and "gimmicks" is for a full routine that is more than the self-untying knot. The handkerchief's are not gimmicked in anyway. You don't need special handkerchief's (but ripstop nylon lasts longer). I tend to use inexpensive bandanas. But then like Dick Oslund I learned a routine well before I knew of Slydini's version. The "gimmicks" that Tony provides are simply what is needed to make the knot jump in a symphatic silk sequence in the longer routine. Tony teaches a slightly different handling of that sequence than found in Slydini's books. If you read the sequence you know what the gimmick is.

Tony Clark's DVD with hankerchiefs is a good buy and a good companion to the book.

Dick's coming advice is going to be pure gold. You should have little problem.

Awesome. I'm excited to hear Dick's advice.

Could this be done with simple bandanas that one would wear on their head?

Doing it with cotton bandanas is fraught with potential problems:
1. the fabric won't have the slickness necessary to upset the knots very well.
2. cotton absorbs moisture very well...but moisture is the enemy of this method.
3. cotton fabric will not hold up well to the torque or strain required to make convincing knots.

If you can find a bandana pattern in other materials it would be better. They are often called cowboy 'wild rags' and I have seen them in silk and polyester.

Well! Here I am Matthew! (short pause, while everyone says: "Oh. him, again!"

JNeal and Harry have given you "the real work". Slydini "took" an ANCIENT trick (Scot's "DISCOVERY OF WITCHCRAFT" published in the 1500s)updated the EFFECT, and developed a PRESENTATION!

Important note: The effect, and method, are ultra simple. Like the thumb tie, egg bag, and similar classics, PRESENTATION is "what makes it"! If the performer just "does it", it becomes a mere puzzle.

Jay Marshall and I often discussed this. Here's what we agreed on:

If/when you want to add a new trick to the act, there are three "things" necessary!

1. Learn how the trick is DONE.
2. Learn how to DO it.
3. Learn how to DO it, SO THAT IT ENTERTAINS AN AUDIENCE!

Somewhere in the Café is a link of a TV show (30 years +/-)with Dick Cavett and his guest Slydini. FIND IT!!! STUDY IT!!! Slydini made this simple effect into a small miracle, and he ENTERTAINED with it! On the Cavett tape, he does the "sympathetic silks" to close the routine. The "gimmicks" are used for the symp. silks phase. PM me about them.

I've been doing the "knots" since "forever". I learned (#1: how it was DONE, in 1941) in the Bud E. Anderson Circus Side Show. I WAS 9! The magician showed it to me. #2: Learning how to DO it, was a matter of time. I didn't have at that age, the manual skills. Eventually, I developed the manual skills. The major challenge was #3!!! (I never even heard of Slydini until the late '40a,) I had spent fifty cents (!) with Percy Abbott for his Sympathetic Silks mimeographed "booklet". This gave me a few ideas. The Conjuror's Magazine had a patter idea (by Howard Thurston!)These resources helped! Experimentation continued! Finally! I smartened up. I remembered the sideshow magician! SIMPLICITY! I changed a few words of his patter, and it hasn't changed much since. (My motto ever since is KIS MIF. (Keep It Simple Make It Fun!)

I'm writing up "my" routine in "the" book. I'll PM you about that.

I've not seen the Tony Clark material. He has experience! --especially with Slydini! JNeal & Harry endorse Tony (Ha! TONY Slydini--TONY Clark) and that's "good enough' for ME!

Slydini, I'm told,was a tailor. On lecture tours, he carried a "bolt" of rip stop nylon. When he arrived, he would go to a store that sold sewing machines. He would rent a machine for an hour or two, and hem up a batch of "silks". He used white thread on half of them, and red thread on the other half. (Easier to distinguish the "corners")I suspect that he made a good part of his income from the "knots".

The side show magician had used red and blue bandanas. (Nylon didn't "exist" yet, and the bandanas were probably a part of his everyday wardrobe. Slydini, a few years later, "discovered" rip stop nylon. As Jonathan, above, notes, cotton bandanas will "work", but synthetic material is much better. Harry uses bandanas--and I have, too.

About 25 years ago, on the road, I was checking out a thrift store for old books. I found some ladies POLYESTER scarves, about 20" square and in bright solid colors ($.50 each!!!) I invesed a buck. (good investment!) They were easy to work with, and the colors (a red one and a blue one) made it easier on my poor eyesight. Over a few years, I bought many more in thrift shops--I paid as much as a dollar apiece! As fashions changed, I found them less often.I could get a season (350--400 shows)out or a pair.

There! that gives you some background. Keep in mind the "3 rules" above. Slydini made the "knots" a signature piece. You can,too! The trick has been around for 500 years. That, alone, means something.

Now, here is what is IMPORTANT to Pro.:
The effect is VISUAL. The prop(s) are VISIBLE. The EFFECT (and PROP(S) are VERSATILE. The TRICK is ANGLE PROOF. The prop(s) are RECOGNIZABLE. There is NO SET UP (unless you do the sympathetic silks, and that is minimal)A TABLE is not needed (unless you do the sympathetic silks) The TRICK is SPOT ADAPTABLE (opener, middle,closer--although it's probably more effective as a middle) The PROP(S) pack SMALL & LIGHT, and the EFFECT plays BIG. All it needs is YOU, and a GOOD PRESENTATION. (Boy! could I write catalog "blurbs"!!!)

So, this has been part history, part tips and part encouragement. Feel free to PM me for more "technical" information.

P.S.!!! For pete's sake JNeal!! Watch out for "them there fraughts"!!! (They could get you in trouble with the "fraught police"!)

KIS MIF!

The sneaky, underhanded, devious, and surreptitious itinerant mountebanc

Mr. Osland, I, like many have read many of your posts on history, showmanship and technique. I have noticed that you fall into the group of masters with a kind heart. I have seen little that could be called criticism and MUCH encouragement. Thank you. Thank you not only for sharing your wisdom, but for your manner of sharing. We, regrettably on my part, have never met. I can tell you are an excellent magician and even better person. Thanks!!

Dick-

When writing 'fraught' in the above reply, I realized as the word popped into my head... that I had never used (written) it in a sentence before!

So I gave it a try. Are you suggesting one ought... not... use... fraught? Or was that something I was taught?

THAT's why learning English must be difficult for non-native speakers: three words sounding the same with three different spellings: ought- taught- not

(kinda' makes you think of pique, peak, and peek...yes?)

"Si"~ (hee hee),

I gotta watch it, or we could get into a session on semANTICS!

Jon Racherbaumer is a "word smith", and I must keep "practicing" or he'll top me!


I quoted that, just so I could read it again! Now, I must go down town and buy a bigger hat!

Thanks much for your very kind thoughts.

Dick

I met Tony Slidini at the Faucett Ross Magic Fest in St. Joseph, Missouri in June of 1983, and to this day, it remains as THE Magic Convention of all Magic Conventions. My wife and I had the pleasure of having both lunch and dinner with Tony Slydini and just informally talking about Magic in General.

Tony asked me to show him a trick so I took out a deck of cards, shuffled it, cut it, and right then he said to me "Do that again"...I asked him "Do what?.....He said "You know the cut......and he was right, I'd done two false cuts, and Tony said he loved'em and GAVE me two packages of his Palmer silks, opened one set up, took the silks out and starting doing knots, moves and explanations for me......it was a special moment in my life in Magic to have Tony Slydini do the knots just for me at a small table at the Holiday Inn in St. Joseph Missouri.

Tony was THE MASTER of TIMING AND MISDIRECTION.... I think the "Knots Trick" requires a very smooth, clean, unhurried presentation and Tony's was always impeccable.

Wow. This has probably been one of the most helpful threads I've ever came across. Thank you, Dick.

I love the 3 step structure of learning a routine that you've laid out. It's one of those things that we all know (or should know) but it really helps put in perspective when seeing it in black and white (or in this case green and white!).

I equally love the "blurb" that you've described the knotted silks with. It's easy to look at something and know that it's a timeless classic (such as the silks), but to really dissect it as to WHY it is a classic...again, helps put it in perspective.

I don't know if I mentioned this, but Im primarily a mentalist. However, I find myself falling back in love with the classics of magic. I love variety in an act, and I can't wait to add such a beautiful piece of history to mine.

I should have the Annotated Magic of Slydini this week in the mail. I was looking for the silks online to buy and saw that the Palmer silks are $40.00! I didn't realize they were so expensive. Money is a little tight for me right now. Is this the cheapest that the silks run?

Thanks again for all the help,
Matthew

A young lad, whom I am mentoring, paid $40 early this spring for a set of "silks" for Slydini's routine. (He has been mainly a "card man"--although just 16, he's quite good with cards.) I've been encouraging him to widen his interests. I sent him a "set" of the polyesters that I use, so he could practice the moves. However, he'a a slightly impetuous youth (a bit impatient like all adolescents, too) so he ordered the $40 set. When I was his age (1948!) I didn't have that kind of $$$! I used home made "silks".

Joe Duninger was one of the best known mentalists of his time (and the wealthiest!) Joe often opened with an EGG BAG! --He produced a glass of water.He "sold" the production, very well. (He had a rather large egg bag, and the glass of water was not too big. Magicians would say to him: "Joe! Get a smaller bag, or a bigger glass!" If I remember, Al Koran did linking rings.

PM me, and we can discuss the knots further. I may have a few "used polys" left.

Matthew
There is a nice version of the the "dissolving knots" credited to Charlie Edwards, a British street/fair/circus/stage performer of the last century, in Lewis Ganson's, "Routined Manipulations Finale."

Right! That's where I first saw the "knots" in print! I bought all the Ganson "Manipulation" books in the early '50s. --I was about 20 or 21, and deeply "into" manipjlative magic then.

I wish I had met Charlie! (I've heard that he was a real busker!) I remember reading somewhere that someone asked him how much he "got" for a show, and he replied, "I get what I'm worth!"

Thanks for reminding me Micha-el! I'm going to get Ganson's "Finale" off the shelf and read "Charlie's Chapter"! I now remember,that he would finish his routine by NAILING the KNOTS to a board!

That finale (nailing knots to a board) is my memory too. This is a trick I have never performed, but have worked on and played with at various times over the years. I thought of it as a possible replacement for my egg bag routine, but it never made it to performing status. Anyway, although the Slydini version is the gold standard, I have always been partial to the Ganson write up of the Edwards routine. If memory serves me, Ken Brooke mentions Charlie Edwards, in Ken's, "A Lifetime of Joy" book. This reminds me that another trick that I have worked on and played with over the years as a possible replacement for the egg bag is the Coin Game trick that Ken Brooke adapted from the Malini book. I saw a magician named Rene Guerre (sp?) perform the Coin Game many years ago in Hartford CT. I still have hopes of performing it. It needs a finish though!

I loved the Slydini routine when I first saw it back in the 70's on British TV. It is an effect that actually has a usefulness in real life. We have all had problems with knots, especially shoelaces, so having the ability to make difficult knots disappear is a very useful one.

However, I wanted to include the effect in my mentalism show and didn't like the challenge element. In researching the effect, I too came across Charlie Edwards' routine in Routined Manipulation Finale and that was the basis for my three-stage routine.

Someone (possibly Pat page) told me that Ken Brooke took Slydini to see Charlie Edwards perform the Knotted Silks and at the conclusion of the performance, Slydini's eyes welled up with tears at the strength of Edwards' performance.

>>> MathewSims<<<

I mailed a couple of "silks" about 10 days ago. Did they arrive?

For the Slydini Silks, I use 100% silk from Bob Sanders. They wear like iron and haven't had fraying issues. They work a little better than the nylon scarves, sold for the effect. I mark one of the silks to make sure I'm doing things right.

I just ordered the Slydini Silks from Palmer Magic today.
I wanted to start practicing right away so I went to a thrift shop and bought 2 polyester 24" handkerchiefs for 1.29 each.
I've been practicing since I bought them. I can't wait until the Palmer silks arrive.
I now understand why it helps if the silks are the same color.
I will watch Bill Malones' video for the third time. This time with the silks in hand.
Such simple things make me happy!