I have been looking at the the magic vs entertainment thread in Food for thought
It is about emotional mentalism but it seems to be wandering all over the place because it doesn't give any examples
My idea of an example is
Doing a cold reading and making a guess about a personal detail i.e
Who is Mary?
What is this sudden change in your love life on your Heart Line?
A hit like this can produce a deep effect/amazement
I have done the Quick and the Dead but I always tell them not to write down the name of somebody Dead who was close to them
That could be too emotional
For me anyhow
What is your favourite 'Emotional Mentalist Effect'?
Cheers
TJ

I never dig in to thoughts. Making them believe things that are not true gives me a disturbing feeling..

Unlike illusions, they see things that are not there..

that's only my opinion..

Derren Brown describes an excellent ring floating effect in ones of his books that has a real emotional link, each phase building upon the last until the ring starts to float.

Hi Karl
I don't how making a hit i.e finding out something that is true relates to 'Making them believe things that are not true'
I'm also having trouble understanding
'Unlike illusions, they see things that are not there..'
A fuller explanation would be OK BUT I would much rather read your favourite emotional effect

Cheers
TJ

In my coin bending routine, I have the spectator think of a pleasant memory - I ask them to try to feel the same way (happy,...) --> result: the coin in their hand has bent.

thats the way I did it. now i´m not quite sure about it.
is it okay to connect the bending with feelings of people?

in some cases the spectators didn´t care about their feelings or the connection between their feelings and the bending, "just" said - "wow its bent".
in some cases the spectators - anticipators seemed to be very touched...
I like the second response, but is this a proper way to get it?

Greg Wilson's Lipstick routine where the lipstick penatrates a lady's hand is EXCELLENT. I had a woman sit down she said she was so lightheaded after the effect. Some people would say "DEEP ASTONISHMENT" is very strong also. I know someone who prepared the effect, and when the "special" person / word was named, the individual said "Rose", which if you own the effect, and look in the book, REALLY packed a strong wallop!

-Joel

I was going to say Deep Astonishment also, but then I thought it over. That's one of my favorite effects; it's very very strong. Emotional effects differ though.

My favorite emotional effect would have to be PK Touch. I've had male spectators break down and cry at the end, but not out of sadness. Just shear emotion.

Some will surely say taking things to this level is wrong, but I've said it before and I'll say it again: magic isn't about entertaining someone. It's about givng them an experience they'll never forget.

Great thread idea!

-Christian

AMEN!

The type of magic you do is often predicated by the venue you are working in. for example, I will be working the Motivation Show in Chicago this week, hawking the services of a company that does hotel room giveaways (no timeshare sales pitches, either). Doing a long, drawn out routine that's suitable for only the person I am talking to at the moment would be completely out of place, just as doing knife through the arm at a hemophiliacs convention would be.

If you don't gear your material to the specific venue, you are going to run into problems eventually - whether with the clientele or with your employer.

Saying that, for one-on-one, Kathy's Screwy Finger Bit, as described by Jim Ryan in Magic Menu is a killer. People really buy into the idea that you are forcing their fingers to move via some strange force!

For a table of people, I like Sankey's Shuffle,Cut, Deal, but I also like the Brainwave deck - it's clean and very visual. Another one that really will freak people out is Andruzzi's Coffin Nail.

For a crowd, such as at a cocktail party, I like some of the Georgia Magnet stuff, particluarly the unbendable arm and the one where three guys push you against a wall and you easily push then away.

But for a solid bit for almost any occasion, my own "Thrice Drawn Circle" from the New Invocation is the capper. You divine the name of someone who has been bothering someone (or bothered them in the past) and give them a small protection against that person in the future.

Hope this helps!

Lee Darrow, C.H.

I have to disagree with you, Christian. As far as I am concerned, magic IS about entertaining people. You can give them an experience they will never forget, and I try to make sure that I do - but that's still entertainment.

If I go to the cinema or the theatre and watch something that has a profound impact on me, it was nevertheless a movie or a play, and therefore a piece of entertainment.

If I sawed someone's arm off, that would give them an experience that they would never forget, but I doubt they would find it entertaining.

But to address the topic at hand, I find Derren Brown's presentation idea for Terry Lunceford's floating ring to be very powerful.

There's another one that I find effective, but I don't often find the ideal target audience. It's basically a scam Tarot reading for a very romantic couple (e.g. newly weds), with The Lovers forced as the most significant card of the reading. The others can be pre-arranged so that the whole thing provides a rosy picture, or you can just concentrate on getting that one card out at the right time.

p.at, I'm intruiged about how you present your coin-bending in such a way that the spectator makes an emotional connection between the memory that they are thinking of and the coin that you are bending. Care to go into a little more detail?

I love combining peeks , and revelations using anything from ashes to mists on glasses or windows.

I set the mood then ask the spec to write her phobia or any disturbing matter that affects her on a piece of paper that is to be folded. (I might over hear these infos early on ). I go through a series of actions from breathing in synch with her to having her touch the tip of my finger etc. I then make my revelation , depending on the situation I'm in.

In the end the spec may be a bit shaken , so I always end assuring her that when I count to ten and tap her hand she will never be bothered again by the phobia and what not.

These are combinations of stuff I have read in the past. From Kenton to Luke J, and Osterlind. For some reason 5 persons have been enjoying phobia free days in the past 2 years. I don't claim anythinfg folks, just sharing what for me seem to be real magic that even baffled me.

Peace,

Rannie

Since I have given a lot of thought about this subject I would like to offer a few suggestions.

You have to think in broader terms than just magic or mentalism. You have to think about "theater"! Examine what happens to your own emotions and feelings when you see a great movie. How do you feel when you go to a concert of one of your favorite musical groups and are "moved"? Try to understand how you feel when you read a book and go from a terrifying experience to one of relief or joy or laughter. There is a reason why people read books, go to the movies, concerts and plays. They want to be "moved". They want to feel something. You have to have ups and downs. You can't create that "great moment" unless you lead up to it. You have to have light moments, funny moments, heavy moments, thoughtful moments all blended together to make an "experience."

I love DVD's. I love the "extra" material! You can learn so much by watching these clips and learning how they make a movie. Not just the special effects, but listening to the actors. Understanding how they feel and what they did to make the character happen. Sometimes you have to break away from magic for awhile to get a fresh view as to what works.

Just my thoughts.

Richard

Mr. Osterlind, I couldn't agree more, I with Christian have always belived that magic is more then entertainment, it is an experience. Entertainment is only a small piece of the picture we try to create in our magic. For me, if someone leaves my performance and says I was entertained, then they only saw a piece of that picture. Maybe I didn't do a good job at painting that picture, maybe that person only has the mind set to see a certin portion of it. I would however be very sad if that is all they took from it, but that's just me and what I go for the experience not just the entertainment.

I undertstand the desire to make magic more than "mere" entertainment. I suppose that I'm just a bit more generous in how I define "entertainment", which is why I can happily include in it even things like really good cinema, theatre ... any sort of art, including our own; and not just when it is merely diverting, but when it profoundly affects the audience. Even in those circumstances, the audience has sought out that experience, and any frisson of deep emotion that comes with it, because they wanted to be entertained.

However, to get back, once again, to teejay's original question, I can see how many of the effects mentioned above can really blow people away, make a huge impact on them, etc., but not how it can have really solid emotional resonance. Is it enough, do you think, to ellicit gasps, wonder, amazement - because these are all emtional responses? Or is teejay talking more about really solid, emotional resonance, of the kind described in Derren Brown's books (particularly "Absolute Magic")? And if so, what effects really hit home solidly on that score?

Incidentally, I've been working on ring levitation using a loop, because it makes it relatively easy to get the thing to float horizontally. Terry Lunceford's ring levitation is fantastic for tables, but doesn't adapt well to walk-around. Tried it out last night, using ideas from Derren Brown as the basis of the presentation - it went down a storm.

Without getting into a Menalism/Magic debate, I think that Anniversary Waltz, combined with a bit of cold reading has a very strong affect on the couple for which you perform. Several times I have had people tell me a year later, they still have the card I gave them during the performance.

Bending objects

I can’t recommend you enough Richard Ostelind's sets. On Mind Mysteries Vol. 1 you have a full routine that, with the proper modifications that suit your character, will create the perfect synergy between you and your audience. And that kind of bonds are hard to obtain.

I hope this helps you,

Best,

Alfredo

I would say that any in the spectators hands magic can be made into somethhing emotional. Saying it is them that has perfoermed the magic etc

For focused mentalism, I also tend to go towards things like my variation of Shufflecutdeal by Sankey, but with Tarot cards and use the last three cards for a very positive and personal cold reading. of course, if I have extra knowledge about the target individual, well, that makes it even stronger.

Haunted Key, when done in the spectator's hands can also really blow the socks off of the person you are doing it with and the Brainwave deck, when presented as a straight prediction, can really be impressive as well - and not presented as the Invisible Deck, as some folks tend to do. With the key, I use a true story about my Grandfather's exploits with the Merchant Marine during WWII - a ship he was supposed to have taken (and didn't) was sunk and, a year later, in New York City, he ran into the Captain OF that ship - who also refused the berth (which is allowed in the Merchant Service) and BOTH of them said that it was because they felt their footlocker key turn over in their pockets!

Just some additional thoughts.

Lee Darrow, C.H.

If you're worried about ethics, you can do a simple routine that doesn't claim anything but is still moving (i.e. gypsy thread with a meaningful story line). On the other hand, you can go ahead and do living and dead tests, psychic feats, and so forth to your heart's content. Here's an idea: a center-tear and a oujia board go a long way.