I have recently bought a number of low-priced eBooks on the magic business
from sources such as Penguin, Lybrary and the like. And I have found many
of them has one thing in common, they give really bad advice.

Although I won't name specific ones, because no one needs that drama, I
will point out some bad ideas I've seen.

1. Crash a fancy event so you can get footage and hand out business cards.

It sounds like a good idea, but reconsider. You're asking to get thrown out,
and quite possibly banned from the venue. also, comes off a bit desperate.
If you want footage with folks in suits, just volunteer time at a charity
event, less goofy, and you might even make it the whole night.

2. Using the same approach to different markets.

Some markets a cold email might prove effective, others you'll be blacklisted for
the rest of time, knowing which is which can save time and money.

3. Incorrect legal and financial advice.

I read one that tried to explain the difference between independent contractors
and sole proprietors, and barely understood the difference himself. Also,
yes you do need a business license from whatever town you are performing in.
Get legal/financial advice from professionals, not $5 eBooks.

4. Buying online ads, without making sure your website landing page
is optimized.

Great way to lose hundreds of dollars at a time.

I could continue, but that's enough. there is actually some good info and ideas
in some of those books, but also lots of questionable ideas the person reading
might not identify as bad, so think about the info carefully.

I can't think of any I would recommend with a full endorsement, but they are
a fun read.

Most I've read are bad, though you can still get at least some good ideas from them. Many are just poorly written, typos, grammar issues, etc. Some are just too vague and incomplete. Some contain filler, some just say the same thing over and over.

Careful now. Most these have been put forth right here in this very section if you just search. Mindpro and I say how bad these ideas are and the usual suspects (I have rights to my opinion.) come out swinging and telling us we are mean.

It is sad when people starting out listen to things like you show here, and much much more, losing thousands of dollars and standing in the market because some person who can’t find work themselves, or for ego gratification, writes a book.

My only shock is you haven’t seen these things in this section instead of buying bad books.

But if you want a way to utilize those books I’ll help. Use them as a mental exercise. Instead of doing what they suggest you would… fill in the black. Keep your mind sharp and moving. Believe it it not it really can help. Take the theory all the way to the end and see just how much collateral damage can happen. The books can be useful like that. No joke. Heck some of the posts here can be useful like that.

And don’t worry. The biggest defender of the proponent for the first idea will be along shortly I’m certain to tell you just how great am idea it really is.

And most of these I am sure were written by magicians. Magicians tend to generalize their knowledge and think it is the same for everyone across the board. For some reason magicians turn to other magicians for business content or advice. Why? Seriously.

If you wanted to open a restaurant would you turn to a regular fat-guy customer or to a service industry business professional? If you wanted to open a bar would you turn to a drunk regular customer or a bar/hospitality industry professional?

What would seriously, truly present you with the best information, guidance, and chance to succeed?

If you want business advice you should be seeking someone that specializes in business, in this case entertainment business, not a magician performer.

Another HUGE problem that exists today is people learn differently and seek and consume content differently. Today people specialize in certain areas (such as entertainment business), or niche-learning/education/training. The days of gathering as much information from as many sources as you can find are long gone as they have proven consistently ineffective in the modern business world. People want and need specialized knowledge, based on experience and insider information - not general content from general sources. Learning from multiple to many sources will, 100% without a doubt, only lead to confusion, overwhelm, conflicting content, paralysis, and little to no results. This is all unnecessary in today's specified content mediums.

I often tell people to do your due diligence and find the single resource that is best aligned with and can best serve you, your interests, your needs (even if you are unclear on what they are), your markets, and your businesses. Commit to that one resource. Learn, be open-minded, and willing to deep-dive into your needs and interests as surface-level content is often misinformation or general information that will only get you so far if at all. Commit. Invest in your decision, yourself, and your business. This is the most direct, quickest, and most thorough way to learn specified business information. I would even go as far to say without this you aren't really in business. It would take years to even attempt to try to learn this on your own today and even then you would not have total or comprehensive content or information.

With the plethora of self-published, self-recorded, and self-released material that is out there today from non-qualified, non-educated, inexperienced creators that only share "what they did" or "how they did it" is making the education landscape blurred with poor to terrible content that in all actuality will not apply directly to you or your needs unless you happen to somehow perfectly align with their (the creator's) own position, market, scenario, circumstances, etc. It is more than a long-shot.

Sure, like Dan mentioned you can try to seek one or two bits of info that may be new to you or that you have to adapt to your business, but that is not truly helping you with what you need - actual real-world, proven, time-tested, directly applicable specific entertainment business content that is complete (more than just a thing or two) and comprehensive to serve what you really need and are truly seeking.

All of this bad content keeps you stuck working "in" your business rather than "on" your business. The one creed in business that proves golden here is "you get what you pay for." If you are trying to do it yourself, on the cheap, believing you can figure it out (imagine if other businesses tried it this way - surgeons, mechanics, electricians, builders, lawyers, and so on, how crazy that would be), constantly doing the trial and error approach, even worse yet the copy-cat approach (from others that really have no idea what they're doing) just look at all of the unnecessary, far-fetched work you are doing with not even knowing if it is right or will work. Who wants to operate this way? Who has the time and money to waste doing it like this? Who really thinks this will get any kind of measurable results let alone success? It is just crazy to me that anyone serious about their business would even consider such an approach or buy such poor content.

What a great topic and thread. I'm glad you brought this up as it is something I get messages about so regularly each week, since it has gotten so bad over recent years. It is so bad for the newbie or uninformed who thinks they are trying to learn what they need to know by purchasing and getting sucked into the bad and misinformation. As you stated above Fedora, you can literally see it setting them up for failure.

It doesn't have to be this way at all.

Even worse, it puts a terribly bad taste in their mouth about the whole learning and educational experience, makes then doubt themselves and their choice of content and approach which makes them gun-shy and second guess investing in the actual real, legitimate content they need (and are desperately seeking) from true proven and credible sources.

As I have said here many times, it is just as important to know what and whom NOT to listen to as it is to learn who and what TO listen to. We can progress our businesses so much by also learning what NOT to do.

What would you all recommend as *good* books on marketing for magicians?

That's a little tricky, I can't think of one I can recommend completely.

Depends on who you are trying to market too as well, who would that be?
Also, your website link doesn't work.

Hi Dorian, my true answer would be - Nothing.

But more importantly you bring up a great example. Your question is exactly how magicians think about and go about approaching information. By asking such a question implies that you are seeking an answer that would help you with marketing (I am not referring to you Dorian, but magicians in general.) There is no such answer to such a question. The question itself is very surface and vague and really can not be answered.

There are literally hundreds of different types of marketing, strategies, campaigns, techniques, and applications. Someone looking to market as a kids magician for kids birthday parties would be muuuuch different than someone seeking to market towards corporate events only for fortune 500 companies, which would be different than someone seeking to market to colleges and universities, as compared to someone interested in marketing to cruise-lines and for working cruise ships.

Asking such a general question can ONLY get you general, surface level responses that will be ineffective and disappointing.

People need to know the questions to ask. To be more specific in what they are seeking. In realty anytime anyone asks me such a question I almost immediately know they do not need marketing information, advice, or resources, they need business advice, information and resources. Marketing is something that really only comes into play once one has all other business elements in place and they have become market-ready and ready to market. Most when asking questions about marketing have not done these so the question actually becomes mute at that point. I could give you the exact information you think you need (if it existed) and it won't matter.

I would never recommend a marketing book for magicians as, if I even would know of one I would be comfortable suggesting it will at it's best be limiting.

What is actually needed is information on being an entertainer, then would come in the specific questions I just offered above.

This question would be like asking a chef for recipes for good food. It is not really a question that can be answered properly without more information and context. I could go on but I'll keep it brief and leave it at that to ponder.

Much of the general information put into the magic marketing books come from the non-magic marketing books. So don’t overlook digging into some of the marketing books that you can find in the local library or sold cheap online. It’s been said that “Leaders are Readers” and most of the really successful businesspeople have well stocked bookshelves.

But yes, you can certainly learn from other magicians already doing what you’re wanting to do. So my suggestion is only seek out market specific books written by those doing what you wanting to do.

Tom

You mean don’t take advice from someone not even in the full time performance market for decades? Yea good advice. It really is.

Who not to listen to is probably more important than who you do listen to.

Most of the information in the op has been discussed here with many defending the practice AND praising the “little eagles” who disseminated the claptrap. Mind you nobody will have enough guts to step up and admit maybe it wasn’t the best thing to do but just do a search to find the threads if they haven’t been deleted.

THIS is the point I am making pretty consistently about how bad information can hurt at the very start of a career. It indeed matters and the idea of universal praise of everyone, regardless of content helps nobody.

NO, that’s not what I mean at all. It’s the opposite. Sometimes you can learn a lot by stepping outside your own little bubble.

Tom

You mean you can learn from someone who never managed to get to where you want to be?

Seems suspicious logic to me.

I would think it better to do what you said first and listen to someone who is actually in the position you want to be in. That seems to make more sense to me.

I agree with you when you said that. It seems the opposite of what you just said so I’m confused. It is bad to listen to those who are where you want to be? I would imagine that someone doing what you are trying to do would have lots of very current information on the subject.

Ok, so it sounds like apparently there isn't a single book on marketing for magicians that would be worth recommending. Are there any for entertainers in general? I'm open to any in any category. Whether that is for children's shows, corporate gigs, private shows, etc. Statistically there must be at least one good book on marketing for performers out there. Please don't worry about specifics, I would like to know of one that was personally beneficial to *you*. Just humor me

The problem with magician's marketing books is that none of them are directly applicable to magicians across the board. This means that anything you learn from such a book needs to be "adapted" to your specific interests and needs, your business, and your market operations. In most cases adaptations lose something in the process. So something that was less than optimal content to begin with becomes even less beneficial once it goes through the adaption process.

But to humor you as you suggested I will tell you some of the more commonly mentioned resources are from guys like Jim Snack, Eric Paul, and James Munton. Even these are typically for a certain type of magician. While decent, these are not complete or thorough marketing in any way. BUT...you will notice one important factor that refers back to what I said in my first post in this thread about learning, education, and training in today's marketplace. None of these that I just mentioned are books - they are courses.

Courses, one-on-one mentoring and coaching has now become the preferred way to learn because of the many benefits, greater effectiveness, and more measurable results that you can not get from books. Even the ones I just mentioned are 15 years old and are limiting to only specific topics and markets.

The days of finding a general "marketing book" that is applicable across the board for all magicians are long gone.

Tom's comment about having well stocked bookshelves is meaningless if the books are ineffective and they are just sitting there collecting dust because they haven't been read or referred to in ages due to the lack of desired content. So having a huge library means nothing unless you are a collector.

The reason I can not recommend a decent resource for magicians or entertainers is because they really don't exist. This is the exact way it was when I was beginning and seeking such information over 45 years ago. It is the exact reason that for the last 35 years I have written and created my over 100 industry educational resources for live entertainers. They are not "how I did it" but rather how it is done from an industry perspective, not a me-based perspectives as with almost all magicians.

I try to keep up on all books courses, releases, interviews, podcasts, videos, DVDs, and such from the magic community so I am well aware of what is out there. Many are often sent to me for my review and feedback. I mean it when I say there is nothing out there I would recommend on not just marketing but the greater picture of owning and operating an entertainment business as a performer or entertainment-based business. There is nothing that covers the entire business aspects and process behind being a performer or entertainer.

Many may think I only say this to promote my coaching, consulting, and training business. This is simply not true as other than a few years ago making several of my releases available here for members that were asking for it, it is something I am not interested in promoting as I have no need to. I am sincerely saying what I have said above because this simply doesn't exist.

I could give you a great example of the crap that is out there from a book released earlier this year, but I won't as I will get accused of having too long of a post. And like Fedora, I won't call him out by name, but it is a great example of the terrible information that is being peddled out there by subpar performers looking to make a buck as Danny said because their performing isn't sustaining them.

Danny,
No Wrong Again. What I said FIRST was Leaders are Readers and much of the information put out by magicians comes from non-magicians. And then I said, you can certainly learn from others doing what you want to do.

dorian_faust.
Please allow me to make a point by recommending ‘The Daycare Magician Book’ by Danny Orleans and myself for children's shows. This book provides comprehensive coverage of the niche market, giving you insights into both the business side and the creative aspects. It digs into the perspectives of daycare owners and teachers, as well as the process of developing, performing, and marketing a magic show specifically for daycare and early learning centers. Additionally, the book features contributions from other experienced professional magicians who offer valuable information that can be adapted and utilized for children's shows beyond the daycare settings.

My point is a magic marketing book should cover a LOT about the market you're going into. Now let me add, just because I don’t still own and operate a daycare business, a restaurant, or other business today, Or that I don’t perform that much anymore doesn’t mean that I have forgotten everything that I have learned about doing business and have experienced over my lifetime. I’m not completely senile yet. Lol

But my main point being, don’t listen to magicians that say, don’t listen to anybody that is not a professional magician. My reason being: IT WOULD BE STUPID NOT TO LISTEN TO SOMEONE WORKING IN AND WHO UNDERSTANDS THE MARKET THAT YOU’RE ABOUT TO ENTER. Read and study everything you can on business in general, and especially about the market that you’re interested in. Learn the market from top to bottom. Study it from both sides of the fence. Learn the language that they speak. As the say, Do Your Homework If You Want To Move Ahead.

Yes, if you’re one of those magicians that work different markets, you still need to learn as much as possible about each market. And NO you probably not going to learn it all with one book.


Tom

I’ve never seen a magician say not to take business advice from non magicians. I think the entire point Mindpro is making is specifically to look at other than magician sources. You seem to be the only one suggesting such a thing.

Listening to those ACTIVELY involved in the job you want seems smart. The markets in 2023 change with blinding speed. Information that is merely 5 years old can be out of date much less 20 or more. Sure there are principals that will never go out of use. Plenty of basics will never be outdated. But if you are past a very surface level ugh it changes very fast.

But the op is not about your resume, which somehow you felt was relevant here. It is about just how bad those ideas put forth in the op are. And boy are they! What do you think of those things listed Tom? Hotel crashing for example. What do you think of the idea and all it entails and what is says about whoever encourages that idea?

For a lot of reasons even beyond what fedora listed it is cringey. What do you think?

Danny, I wasn’t responding to Mindpro's or Fedora’s first post. Why would you say or even think that I was? Dorian ASKED for a recommendation.

That being said, I think Fedora is right that there is bad magic information out there. But that doesn’t make all information put out by magicians bad. You seem to always insist that anything written and sold by a magician is bad advice. All without having seen it.

Tom

Never said that. Please only speak for yourself.

Now what do you think of hotel crashing and those who encourage it?

I don’t think he said anything about a ‘hotel’ But if you referring to the 1. Crashing a fancy event so you can get footage and hand out business cards. I personally wouldn’t do it or recommend it.

Tom

And what if those who do?