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The Magic Cafe Forum Index :: Rings, strings & things :: Hunter Bow Knot ring release (3 Likes)

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bobandjim New user 44 Posts	Posted: Sep 7, 2015 07:28 am 0 On Jeff McBride's Magic on Stage Volume 1: The Commando Act, he teaches a method of tieing a hunter bow knot around a metal ring such that it allows the ring to pop off when the knot comes undone. I am attempting to wrap my head around this arrangement. I can tie the hunter bow knot on it's own no worries, but when I slip the ring on the rope, everything seems to get tangled. I can get this far. I have the excess rope draped over my left hand with the lose end on the inside of my hand. The ring is laying the rope and my right hand holds the other free end of the rope. I wrap the rope around the first three fingers of my left hand as normal. This is where I get stuck, I don't know which end of the wrapping on my left hand to pinch with my right fingers in order to both release the ring from the rope but also get it sufficiently caught up in the hunter bow knot that it will dangle without popping the knot. Any advice?
Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts	Posted: Sep 7, 2015 09:44 am 1 Bobandjim: (Are 'youse' guy a twin! --maybe Siamese??? This is my old friend JIM RYAN'S "ROPE, RING AND ROD". McBride must have copied it, without credit. It was published, originally, in old friend, Jay Marshall's "NEW PHOENIX" #337, in Volume 1, #4, September 1950. Jay devoted two pages with detailed sketches (from photographs of Ryan doing the trick) to the explanation. Flip Hallema had a method of loading the ring onto the stick, which is, I think, easier and has less chance of any fumbling. (I have the original PHOENIX in front of me as I type this.) PM me, and "we three" (?!) can talk about it. Dick Oslund Sneaky, underhanded,devious,and surreptitious itinerant mountebank (and, soon to be certified a genunine quacksalver). SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1625 Posts	Posted: Sep 8, 2015 02:16 pm 0 Charlie Miller has at least two versions (possibly more!... He loved this trick!) in his old columns in Genii magazine. He changed it from using the hunter bow knot to two other knots... And both are quite strong. I recommend reading them as well. visit me @ JNealShow.com
Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts	Posted: Sep 8, 2015 03:51 pm 0 Right Jon! I vividly remember attending a weekend convention in Wichita KS back in the early '70s. Charlie, Conrad Haden, and another magician whose name I seem to have momentarily forgotten. (I think I mentioned him in the book.) had an all afternoon session in Charlie's hotel room. It was one of those GREAT sharing meetings! Charlie had developed a steal of a finger ring that was IN an OVERHAND KNOT! He did it also in his lecture on IMPROMPTU MAGIC, the next day. I'm quite sure that most of the attendees didn't realize what a great "idea" it was. "Thar's gold in them thar old magazines!" I've been a "student" of the Grismer, Nelson, Clifton school for years!!! SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts	Posted: Sep 8, 2015 03:54 pm 0 P.S. Since yesterday, Bob and Jim and I have conversed. I think it will be a worthwhile conversation! SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts	Posted: Sep 8, 2015 05:06 pm 0 I can only suggest you watch the video again, it has nothing to do with which rope to grab between the fingers to release the ring. It has to do with which end to push through the ring. Watch for the details, I can't believe McBride would not emphasize that point, even using the slow motion practice shots.
Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts	Posted: Sep 8, 2015 06:27 pm 0 111:)Right Bill...I also suspect that that is where bob (OR) jim !!! ( got upgemixt. It's one of the problems with rope and string tricks. (TOPOLOGY)!!! There are technical terms to describe the parts of a "hunk" or rope. --standing part ends, bights, underhand and overhand loops, round turns,ETC. Too many people use these terms too loosely or incorrectly. SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
bobandjim New user 44 Posts	Posted: Sep 10, 2015 10:14 pm 0 After watching the video frame by frame I was able to realize my error. I was essentially tying the knot above the ring, instead of around the ring. Another feature that I realized, is that you need to shift the knot around the ring by 180 degrees, under cover of showing the knot to an audience member, in order for the ring to come off the rope when the knot dissolves instead of still being linked on. Normally McBride is better at teaching this, and his verbal explanation was good, it's just a matter of the camera zooming in and an awkward frame cut making it hard to tell which part of the loop to grab onto. One of the noted benefits of this know is that you if you pull on both ends of the rope in the same direction, the knot will bite into itself and hold allowing a spectator to "confirm" that the ring is well secured. It seems to me that the rope I'm using is too slippery as the knot keeps giving out when I tug on it. @Dick Oslund, I sent you a PM but I have not received the one back from you yet. Im not sure what happened.
Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts	Posted: Sep 11, 2015 12:35 am 0 Bobandjim....... On Monday the 7th, I PM'd you. YOU HAVE NOT READ MY EMAIL!! Check your PM in box..... O SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts	Posted: Sep 11, 2015 04:58 am 2 Quote: On Sep 10, 2015, bobandjim wrote: After watching the video frame by frame I was able to realize my error. I was essentially tying the knot above the ring, instead of around the ring. Another feature that I realized, is that you need to shift the knot around the ring by 180 degrees, under cover of showing the knot to an audience member, in order for the ring to come off the rope when the knot dissolves instead of still being linked on. Normally McBride is better at teaching this, and his verbal explanation was good, it's just a matter of the camera zooming in and an awkward frame cut making it hard to tell which part of the loop to grab onto. One of the noted benefits of this know is that you if you pull on both ends of the rope in the same direction, the knot will bite into itself and hold allowing a spectator to "confirm" that the ring is well secured. It seems to me that the rope I'm using is too slippery as the knot keeps giving out when I tug on it. @Dick Oslund, I sent you a PM but I have not received the one back from you yet. Im not sure what happened. You are totally wrong from your description. You sound like you are making it much harder then it is. It has nothing to do with above the ring, or slipping the rope 180 degrees (that is automatic with the handling). You should be putting the rope THROUGH THE RING then with the ring dangling in the center, tie the bow knot, and tie it tight (just like when you tie your shoes). Now slip on end through the ring, and it does matter which end. No just take ahold of the two ends in one hand, and jiggle the rope until it falls or pull the ring free. Or as you seem to have it pop off and fall to the table or floor, then take an end in each hand and pull, and the ring will release. You can even have the spectator hold the ring and if you don't want it to fall. Yes, you should use soft magician's cotton rope, at least 3/16" thick. http://www.abbottmagic.com/Rope-216-Foot......oryId=-1 Hope this solves your problem, and answers your questions.