That's a nice move, Pete. Thanks for sharing that.

If I understand your descripition, under most circumstances, with your move, the performer is "covered" both ways:

If the knife rolls down and "stays the same color" at the end of the roll, it is "just a flourish" or a display; if the knife "changes color", it becomes a magic "color-changing" move (which, if the color change was not what was wanted or intended, can be "corrected" by simply turning it back to the previous color before procedding further into the routine).

A "no harm, no foul" approach to the move.

Thanks again for sharing.

Mike

BTW--"Chayce" is pronounced "Chess," so when in the routine I refer to my grandfather by his nickname, it sounds like "Harry Chess" (hairy chest).

If I change his name to "Whitney" I'll wind up losing that bit of straight-faced humor, but I'll be replacing it with an inside joke. Especially if I change his last name to "MacHadden" to complete the homage.
:thanx:

That is a very nice compliment, Donal.

I am sorry to hear that your grandfather was fictional, however. Better luck next time!

My grandfather was from Martinsville, VA. His name was Whitney Shumate.

:lol:

Since my "grandfather's" last name will no longer by Chayce, I'll have to explain that he was my maternal graunfaither...

I've been doing Whit's routine almost word for word for the last 10 years. If you do it with his script in 10 years it will be your routine and it won't look anything like Whit's just like mine does. The point is in some cases if a trick is written and designed by a real performer there isn't much to do to it. Unless your a tape recorder I doubt you're going to sound like Pop anyhow.

All the best. bob.

Pop,
I love both your knife and Ring routines. Both make me laugh everytime I see them. Your delightful performance character makes these routines so attractive to learn. It is great that you encourage others to use these routines. I think you are right that these routines can work for any character who can engage good audience interaction, ..they seem designed to be fun for everyone in the room, including the performer! When Pop Haydn does them, it is outrageously funny, just classic!

I totally agree that Whit's TIWOD and four ring routine are a great base for just about any performer to start their act from. I started doing both move for move and word for word in practice. What didn't feel right for me I changed. By the time I actually performed both for anyone neither looked much like Whit's routine, but the patter flow and mechanics were all similar.

Thaks for sharing Whit.

I really like both your characters, although I have to say I have a soft spot for your Pop Hayden charachter.

As mentioned I now have your DVD and really feel that I made a good investment in a great routine and teaching devise, I especially like the roll over paddle move that you teach.

The only part that I am not sure about (don't get me wrong you do this great and it workds for you) is the initial vanish of the knife and then pulling it out of your pocket again. I totally understand that it is paramount to making the S****H but am trying to think of an alternative method/vanish. Then again I am still at the practising stage of this routine and perhaps after another month or so when I road test it to my fellow magicians it will all come together. (I allways road test with my magic buddies before taking a routine out into the real world)

Thanks Again

Possibly the main demonstration of Whit with the knives (also) is that people looking for new moves are often side tracked. All the moves there are fairly classic, but the management of the interaction with the audience is outstanding. The smile is always present, even when people interfere (the lady trying to pull his hand back for example): Whit gets out of it with a kind word and a laugh.
The audience participation and the way Whit handles it seems to me to be what makes this routine. Now since I believe that it's what makes magic entertaining, I might be projecting my own beliefs on Whit's penknives as well.

To me this is the essential lesson in Whit's routine.

Posted: Jan 20, 2009 8:07am
On another post about other magicians recognizing sleights and the desire to be original I posted the following
"Is the point to be original or is it to be entertaining?
Yes our ego feels better when we have "found" something, but isn't magic about audiences rather than about performers? So my question would be was your script original and entertaining? Because this is what audiences will remember.

I did a test recently with a younger magician. I had him watch Whit Haydn's color changing knives routine. Naturally he loved it (who wouldn't?). Then I asked him first what were the moves in there. Naturally he mentionned, even without thinking and with a semi interogative voice, the paddle move. Then I asked him if he noticed the other moves: he said no (there aren't many new methods in Whit's routine). Then I asked him to list the effects in the routine. He couldn't. This demonstrated that he had mentioned the paddle move just by culture rather than observation and that when entertainment is there NO ONE, even a young magician looking for methods, CARES any more about the method. How could they? The magical entertainment makes it that they don't even realize distinctly the effects: they only realize that this entertaining piece do not follow the natural laws they are holding for true and that this doesn't make it threatening.

I could have made the same demonstration with Albert Goshman coins and salt shakers which are nothing more nothing less than a very simple cups and balls routine... or about René Lavand's Breadcrumbs which are nothing more nothing less than a two in the hand and one in the pocket repetitive routine. Both are entertainment masterpieces nevertheless.

My point is that it is easy, in principle, to be original: forget about differences in methods, search for differences in presentation and entertainment. Don't let other magicians focus on the method and put you off balance by wanting to be smart in showing off their culture (which can often be large), put THEM off balance with an original presentation delivered with great acting.

It's more difficult than finding a new method, but it's more fun to create, more fun to practice and much more fun to perform."

Sorry for quoting myself but it shows how much I appreciate Whit's routine... and I didn't mention persona, clothing and voice management at which Whit is an expert.

Postscript: I decided not to change my graunfaither's name. Instead, as a result of some exhaustive research, I discovered that that Scotsman who invented the first folding penknife was none other than Whitney Hadden.

From now on, whenever I perform the knives, I will, of course, make mention of that fact.
:thanx:

Be classy: perform with a kilt. Pat Page does for official venues! ... and I also did see an avatar with a magician in kilt on the café. Very personal, very elegant especially when it has historical ground!

PS: the French were the historical allies of Scotland against the British: let's drop the "against" but let's remain allies.

I've had my first set of Mogar Knives for about 3 weeks now, after upgrading from a cheap set. The Chameleon Knives DVD is great for learning a variety of moves and routine elements which you can then apply to your own routine style. Joe is completely thorough in teaching techniques. As far as performance routines are concerned, IWoD is classic. If you master all the moves Joe teaches, you can make a workable routine of your own design.

I don't know if he has it in print but you might want to check our Dennis Loomis. He has some good knife ideas.

Take care and take cards
Antony Gerard
Michigan Magic day 2009
http://www.MichiganMagicDay2009.com

To Antony,
Thanks for thinking of me. I don't have anything in print, but I'll share an idea of mine here. I made a hollow magic wand from a Milk Shake size drinking straw. It's plugged at only one end and I put a whole bunch of the little mini-knives into the wand. This needs to be kept standing upright in your close up case or a pocket. At the end of a Knife routine I apparently place one knife into my left hand, but it's actually retained in the right which reaches and get the Wand. The full size knife is ditched and the wand withdrawn. As the wand is used to tap the left hand, the little knives slide into the right. The left hand is now shown empty. On the off beat, as the spectators respond to the vanish, the wand is transfered into the left hand and the right hand makes a fist with the baby knives inside. The wand is used to tap the left hand which then opens to reveal the little knives.
This is a good move for "one-off" shows like in the Close Up Gallery at the Castle. Unfortunately it's not a good move for walk-around because it takes a little time to put all of the little knives back into the wand.

Dennis Loomis

Lawrende, I can't send you a PM.

I agree with Pete -- there is a lot available, so much so that you need to be careful lest you bog yourself down with too much and never get any where. After you get a routine together that flows, then maybe start looking at other material.

David

Truesoldier

I have some work and ideas on the Color Changing Knives. If you are interested please PM me.

Take care and take cards
Antony Gerard
Michigan Magic day 2009
http://www.MichiganMagicDay2009.com

I love Bill Malone's routine for this. Mine is similar with a few changes.

Pete, your memory wasn't fading: it is in Tarbell Vol 7 p 212 at the bottom of the page (just under the drawings) and you are duly credited for it.

Thanks for sharing it.

The information part of your post is perfectly correct.
However you may accept that magic is alive and that at no time can a work be considered "definitive" (outside sales pitch descriptions). It so happen that I knew Arturo Ascanio who came to stay at my place in Paris and he was very respectful about Juan Tamariz's work on the knives as published in Sonata.

Arturo's work is remarkable as, when he teaches the knives, he is also teaching magic in general and, in that respect, he is still ahead of our time.

IMHO when we share the enthusiasm of a genius on some magical genre, we should do it alongside his own spirit which was to take part in making it progress, not to conclude it, preventing its evolution.

... but yes I love the work of Arturo and I published some of his analysis in the thread on misdirection.

If you would ask Johnny Thomson, he would confirm that, way back in 1994, I gave him a routine which he is still doing when he wants to fool magicians with the knives... and as you know he had published his own which was already excellent.

Let's keep magic on the move.