Yes, there is.

Magicians.

This time the test is a little more than knowing where to show up with $20 in hand.

The point is, it would be meaningless to search any such material out without either having seen it in person, or had it recomended by someone you highly regard.

It only makes sense in performance.

I don't know what this post means.

What is meant by the answer "Magicians."

While the post leaves me confused as to its exact meaning, it seems to be clearly condescending and presumptious.

Gianni

My desire is neither to exclude nor ellude. I only wish to uphold the authors desire.

All of magic is a constant proving ground where in proving your ability with "lesser" secrets you earn the enlightenment to "deeper" secrets. That is the wisdom of the answer "magicians".

Even when one steps into a magic store they will, if reputable, inquire to your abilities so as not to sell you something beyond your ability or interest.

I know there are those who believe plunking down their cash entitles them to any and all of magic's secrets. It does not...on more levels than the most obvious.

So, Gianni. You had asked about the process of finding out what these books are. Here it is: Go on about your magical journey and these books will find you. You may have already held them in your hands at a convention and not known it. Not yet seeing their wisdom. I did this very thing.

I make no presumption in choosing to not disclose something to people I have never met. I have not enough to make either presumption or assumption.

As for discussion of the content, I find descriptions of magic to be a grossly lacking representation of the actual experience of it.

Disclaimer: I do not believe in the idea of lesser or greater secrets in regard to their value in use. Some of the most simple secrets are the most wonderful.

Tom, our discussion should probably not go much further because there is little to be gained. But I do have some respectful reaction to your remarks:

1) You say that there are those who believe that plunking down their cash entitles them to any and all magic secrets. Well,I don't think that plunking down cash entitles
one to know magic's secrets. But I do think that plunking down one's cash entitles one to purchase goods that have been published and offered for sale in the marketplace. And, after all, that is what we are talking about in this post. Someone has published materials and offered them for sale.

2) You mention that I should continue my magical journey and these books will find me.

Well, and quite possibly to our detriment, the internet is now part of magic's journey. This board is part of the journey. And huge parts of this board are specifically designed to guide beginners, to share information, to permit interaction between knowledgable hobbyists and pros, and to review books, tricks, and videos to spread to all members of the board information about these things. So we are left with the question, why are these books exempt from very core principles of this board? No one has asked for secrets, just references. It goes on every day on this board.

Now if someone reading this board and this thread says, "Hey, those books are too good. I love them and want to keep them to myself," that's understandable. But if someone says to a questioner, "You're not worthy to know these things. Only people with X credentials can know them," then I take offense to that attitude. And frankly, that's how I read the tone of this thread. And that is the nature of my reaction.

Gianni

Gotta go with Gianni on this one. Don't publish your material AT ALL, if you want it kept a secret.

When someone publishes something he still has the right to limit who has access to the information. This is normally done by pricing the material beyond what people are willing to spend just to satisfy their curiosity. I agree with this practice and am more than willing to pay a premium price for something I can be sure will be somewhat exculsive but I cannot figure out why Gary doesn't publish under his own name.

Wow, I had forgotten the topic.

I agree with Randy.

Hi,
I have books 2 and 3 of the Kurtz mentalist books. There is basically just one effect in each, and there about $25.00 each. I think the reason Mr Kurtz has put these out under a differerent name is to stop Magicians rushing to buy it rather than Mentalists.
I do not think that he has done this to be elitist or derogatory to magicians but to save you from wasting your money! I do not mean that they are no good they are exellent if you perform a mentalist act. But the Magority of Magicians would find them a let down.

the effect in vol 2 is pure mentalism, paper and pen only. billet switches ext, and they require that you have a solid backround in mentalism to perform them well.
phillip