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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts 
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On 2011-10-04 16:04, Woland wrote: There is a difference between something being God-given, and man SAYING or WRITING that something is God-given. Many people claim God-given rights. I am sure you would disagree with many of them. And whatever happened to the Divine Right of Kings. On the other hand, many Christians reject the belief that anything other than what is in the Bible is the word of God.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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As far as the laws of the United States are concerned, all men are equally endowed by their Creator with inalienable rights. Whether you think so or not, that is the law of the United States.
And just because you may be SAYING or WRITING that the right of self-defense is not God-given, does not make it so, either. Many people disagree with reality in any sort of way you can imagine. But that doesn't make it so. |
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bblumen Special user Baltimore 987 Posts
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On 2011-10-04 15:51, kcg5 wrote: To your first point, the government could not care less about anything other than collecting fees. To the second point, many people do own guns that shouldn't...they are called criminals. And, they do other things other than hunt, they commit crimes. Someone might want a suppressed weapon to protect their hearing while target shooting. And, it is insane that those of us who have "silenced" weapons have to pay a tax to the government for this. A ".50cal "sniper rifle"? I like target shooting, and the farther away the target, the more of a challenge. Playing Army for me was when I left the Army in 1996. Brian
"Lulling the minds of your company is more important than dazzling their eyes." Ed Marlo
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts
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Someone might want a suppressed weapon to protect their hearing while target shooting. Personally, I just use a $5 pair of ear muffs. What? 
My best friend's uncle wrote the book on home made silencers. And then he wrote the sequel to that book. Not kidding.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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You might be surprised to learn than in Great Britain, it is concerned rude to hunt without equipping your rifle with a noise suppressor, and that noise suppressors (silencers) are available without special permit in Finland and other European countries.
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts
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On 2011-10-04 16:19, Woland wrote: I certainly agree that everyone has a right to self-defense. Yes, that is self-evident. I was really talking about the leap of logic from a right to self-defense to some imagined God-given right to own and carry as many weapons of any sort as one wants.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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You can't really have a right if you don't have the means to exercise it. Samuel Colt gave a 95-pound woman the means to defend herself against a 200-pound would-be rapist. And you would deny it to her, why?
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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On 2011-10-04 16:19, Woland wrote: That's not actually the law of the United States; it's the stated rationale of many of the people who went on to create the Constitution several years later. As for gun ownership, IMO, registration laws aren't inconsistent with the Second Amendment. Registering guns doesn't mean that you can't keep and bear them.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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Lobowolf, wasn't the Declaration of Independence explicitly incorporated into the laws of the United States by an Act of Congress sometime around 1871 or thereabouts?
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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On 2011-10-04 17:37, Woland wrote: I hadn't heard that, but maybe so (and if so, apologies for my mistaken correction).
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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My recollection may be incorrect. Let me try to recover the documentation.
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts
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"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16554 Posts
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The real purpose of having to register anything with the government is so the government can own it, which includes your children and you. Which is why its a crime to kill yourself our other people.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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I believe that the Declaration may be cited in the U.S. Code as one of "the organic laws of the United States of America." I am not a Constitutional scholar, but I believe that the precedent goes back to the Northwest Ordinance of the Congress of the Confederation (1787), but affirmed under the Constitution in 1789. And I have been told that the SCOTUS has utilized the Declaration as the basis for decisions.
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts
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On 2011-10-04 17:47, Woland wrote: You are correct.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16554 Posts
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All laws are not equal. That one is not just any old law but one of, The Supreme, The Boss, The Governer, The Gun Shumocker laws of the land.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts
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I still like the idea of if you are in my home and trying to steal my posessions and are endangering me and or my loved ones this applies:
BANG Stop or I will shoot. Do I think a life is worth a few valuables? You made that decision for me when you entered my home illegally and jeporadized my life and that of my family.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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John Adams, in his speech in defense of the British soldiers charged with murder after the "Boston Massacre" provided an excellent summary of English Common Law regarding self defense. It is well worth reading. At the moment, I can't find the entire text online, but the following paragraph from the final summation is illustrative:
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Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence: nor is the law less stable than the fact; if an assault was made to endanger their lives, the law is clear, they had a right to kill in their own defence; if it was not so severe as to endanger their lives, yet if they were assaulted at all, struck and abused by blows of any sort, by snow-balls, oyster-shells, cinders, clubs, or sticks of any kind; this was a provocation, for which the law reduces the offence of killing, down to manslaughter, in consideration of those passions in our nature, which cannot be eradicated. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16554 Posts
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Common Law Principles:
1) Do not breach the peace. 2) Do not cause anyone harm. 3) Do not cause anyone loss. 4) Do not cause mischief in your promises and agreements. Can one carry a gun? Yes! Except it is Treason to even imagine the death of our lord the King, or of our lady his Queen.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts
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Isn't it also treason to put a postage stamp bearing the likeness of the Sovereign on an envelope upside down?
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Posted: Oct 4, 2011 08:15 pm 