I'm looking for your opinions in regards to what you think the effects of the world wide web has had on magic.



Good? Bad? I believe for the most part it has helped.

It can give one a taste of international flavors or fill one's world with thoughtless idiots. Depends on the site



Tom

I think the tally card would show it has done more harm than good. There is too much infomation too easily found by beginners. When they should be getting their magic legs firmly in place first they are instead learning how to fly (ala Copperfield). There are many that would argue that my thinking is out of date, but how can one build a house without a firm foundation FIRST. It's the same in magic. Many are forgoing the foundation and instead going right to building the attic. The internet gives away too much too soon.

Just my 2 Drakma worth,

Doug

It does seem like a lot of "Secrets Revealed" type sites are everywhere you turn!

But I have noticed that these sites are always on some sort of free hosted place like Geocities and the like.



The irony of it all....it's a lot of BEGINNERS making the sites!



I also believe too many videos have helped promote that sort of EASY SECRETS as well.

Just my two cents.

...and yet we still get the whinning that, "Videos are too expensive!" cry from those who believe that they should be privy to the information for next to nothing.

In the end the Pandora's Electronic Box has been opened and all we have left is "HOPE" that it will all turn out alright.

Just my 2 Drakma worth,

Doug

Hi Everyone!



I’m Colin Markos owner, designer, & webmaster of Magician Zone and I was invited here by my friend Ichazod.



I chose this category to make my first post because it’s regarding something I feel VERY strongly about.



I couldn’t have said it better than Doug did. I agree with him 100%. When I see all the sites that freely and openly disclose our secrets it really pisses me off. It’s obvious that these sites only care about revenues and have absolutely NO respect for an ancient art that has survived thousands of years. Is the internet going to be one of it’s main destructors? It’s bad enough we have people like that masked psycho using the media as a way of infecting and marring our art. Now we have to fear the internet. Available to BILLIONS of people! How do we stop the revealing of our secrets?? Sure, I know what many people think... "well, they can’t reveal EVERY secret so.." or "it MAKES magicians better themselves and come up with new material.." But not many people seem to realize that it not just the secrets, it’s the "perception" of how people view magic. Once that awe and mystery are gone then what are we left with? High-tech trickery? Is that what magic’s destiny is? Well, it seems that is our inevitable path. People like Copperfield and Burton are running out of things to do! So they use their millions to come up with these high-tech fooleries. Do you think people really think these guys are "real" magicians? Or do they all know that in this high-tech world we now live in, anyone with enough money can use technology to make any illusion seem real? With today’s movies and TV special effects so realistic, people just look at these guys as in the same category as movie stars. What does this do to the "perception" of what magic used to be... Is it an art that conforms to the changing world, or does it have a point where it’s essence just eventually fizzles out? Maybe it’s too late to preserve Magic’s fate... or is it? Well the internet is certainly NOT going to help unless we do something about it before it’s too late. Soon I will a**emble a group of magicians to fight against this "crime" on the internet. As soon as my website (Magician Zone) becomes more popular, and I have finished my new E-zine "MAGI-Zine"(scheduled to be published Sept. 15th)I will begin to a**emble my posse of Magi-police to start cracking down on all offenders. If you want to help let me know.



I know you guys probably think I’m a real nutcase...lol but I’m really not. I’m just another Magic fanatic who makes my living (or part of it anyway..lol) from magic and I am very dedicated to it’s honor and it’s respect. Hopefully there are still some magicians out there who think as I do...



Doug, I just wanted to tell you that your writing style is fantastic and if you don’t already write professionally you should seriously consider it...lol



If you ever have the time I would be honored to have a writer of your caliber, write for my new e-zine. Let me know if you’re interested.



Well, I’m sure if you’ve gotten this far you’re convinced I’m a nut for writing so much..lol Sorry if I rambled...



:rotf:



_________________

Sincerely,



Colin Markos

Magician Zone

well Colin, you are a nut. But what you wrote is the truth, Glad you came by.

Ichazod

It might comfort you to know, that even with the internet seemingly destroying magic, I came across something very interesting in my Stanyon's Magic book (A huge volume that my friend Lou put out through his company L & L).



As you know, Stanyon was a magician in the late 1890's that ran a magic magazine for magicians.



Around the early 1900's, many magicians of the time were complaining about Howard Thurston, who would give out small magic tricks to audience members, and was even known to teach a trick now and again.



The point is, magicians were yelling "Exposure", and felt magic was coming to an end as a secret art.



Well, it survived. And I really believe it will survive, one way or the other.

Of course, only time will tell.

Steve,



Your analogy is certainly a good one but unfortunately not really applicable in this situation. It’s one thing for secrets to be revealed to a very small group of people (by the "choice" of the magician), as opposed to readily and INSTANTLY available for any beanhead, who owns a computer with a modem, to see. Now all someone has to do is have the curiosity, and say, "hey, I’ll bet I can find that on the internet,” and type a few words into a search engine and get THOUSANDS of sites which will gladly show him what he is seeking. This is truly alarming and like a hunted animal being attacked from behind by a swift predator, he doesn’t realize his fate until it’s too late and he is in the clutches of it’s fangs. I know I sound like an alarmist, but I’ve already been affected by this a few times while performing. A few times a kid or an adult will say to me, "I saw that on the internet, I know how that works." Maybe when this happens to you personally, you will realize that the situation is worse than it may appear to be.



As Doug would say... "that is just my two drakma worth..." LOL





_________________

Sincerely,



Colin Markos

Magician Zone

It is my belief that if you are a good entertainer, the possible side effects of exposing magic shouldn’t be a problem:



I put the Linking Rings away after the television exposure for a couple of months. After which I decided to pick them up again and revamp the entire routine and handling. Not only is it now a staple part of my stand-up act, but my close-up and restaurant acts as well.



After performing with the small set at one of the restaurants, a boy came up to me and said something like, "I have a set of those rings, too. Only one of mine has a cut in it."



_________________

Mike



The Magical Mayhem of Mike Giusti

http://www.magicalmayhem.com

Hey Mike,



Same thing happened to Ken Garr. A kid walked into the shop and said "I know how those work, I have a set......blah blah blah"

Ken says "Oh yeah?" and performs Symphony of the Rings. The kid then said "I must have a different set". In magic, there is always more than one way to skin a cat. If you know your stuff and you have your chops down, (and I mean down), then exposure will not hurt you as a performer.



Seeing something exposed on the net or T.V. is entirely different than having a trick done for you live. Good audience management and proper direction are only two of the factors that make a difference. I’ve always felt that magicians have been hurting themselves much longer than any other outside source has.



Adios,

Dorian

I'm a webmaster myself. Magic sites are great ways to share the magic of magic (forgive the puns). I only disagree with sites: that are solely dedicated to revealing secrets, reveal secrets without giving a foundation (as it has been posted in this topic), and do not do justice for magic. My site has beginner magic to start off the interested student of magic. It does not reveal any BIG secrets, but allows for the person in the hardest position-- someone starting out in magic-- to learn the basics. I've received a bunch of e-mails from beginners thanking me for allowing them to learn the art of magic. It's a gift to the magic community if you do the site right... or a horror if you do it wrong. You can check out some of my feedback on my site...

Just a comment but wouldn't you think that most of the visitors to magic websites are those who have more than a passing interest in magic?



How many people, not remotely interested, do a search for magic secrets?



I may be well off base here but it wouldn't be the first time.



I know my family enjoyed the Copperfield special a few months ago but none of them went rushing to the computer to see how those effects were done.



I don't particularly like some of the magic websites and those I don't visit. But I'm not too sure that I have seen many secrets exposed that I 1) did not already know or 2) could have found on the shelves of most any library or large bookstore.



Just my opinion.



Opinions are like noses--most everyone has one!

I agree with Ray. It is not so much harder to walk into a library or a bookstore and check out some magic books. The secrets found in these very accessible books are typically much more useful than the ones usually revealed on the internet.



The internet allows the international community of magicians to move much closer. We can now chat with people from around the world, share ideas, share our passion for magic. I also think that in the future more meaningful webpages with a lot of information and good content will appear.



One project I am pursuing is my Magic Lineage Project or Geniiology. We try to record the history of moves and tricks. Over time this will be an incredibly useful research site. Check it out at http://www.lybrary.com/credits/



Chris....

Chris,

first off, welcome to our magic community, I'm glad to see you at the cafe.



Second, though your project is a monumental task to say the least, I think your efforts are very worthwhile. Keep up the good work!

I really see it as a positive impact if you look for what it has to offer with, "a grain of salt".



I think on-line demos are nice as they give us the luxury of seeing something performed before we buy. This has encouraged me to buy a few times as well.



I also value the aspect of many different professional opinions so I can descipher what I think is valuable and what isn’t...if used properly (what it was originally intended for,) I think it’s great!



Steve

I agree with Tom, it depends on the site in my opinion. I have learned plenty of effects that I use and wouldn't have heard about anywhere else except the Internet, but I had to take and score a 98 or higher test to get to the area which discussed the actual secrets opposed to just talking about the professionals and store bought items. It has also brought me closer to several magicians that I now can look upon for guidance or help when trying to understand something, and has brought me several new friends along the way, which care just as much about magic as I do.

[quote]
On 2001-09-10 10:55, Colin Markos wrote:

A few times a kid or an adult will say to me, "I saw that on the internet, I know how that works." Maybe when this happens to you personally, you will realize that the situation is worse than it may appear to be.





_________________

Sincerely,



Colin Markos

Magician Zone



Colin:



This is a subject very dear to my heart, also. I am trying to come to a conclusion on it. My question for you is, "What effects has an audience member told you that they already knew because of the internet?" This interests me because I am trying to judge the depth of the secrets being revealed on the net.



Thanks.



Gianni

Exposure, exposure, I agree there’s way too much of it these days.



But knowing how something work’s is just a small part of it, as someone earlier said, "if you got your chops down they will never see you coming."



Quick story, I was at my favorite magic store here in New Hampshire (it’s the only store) that my good friend Andrew owns.



Of course I was behind the counter looking for those lost gems that Andrew had forgot about.



When in walks a man and his son, I’m looking for some easy stuff for my son he says, so Andrew start’s suggesting some very easy intro type of tricks, when the father speaks up and says I know how all these are done, I studied magic for a while myself.



Well at that moment Andrew had a simple plastic ball vase in his hand and started making that ball go from hand to vase to pocket and back again, the man could only stand there with his foot in his mouth and of course, when Andrew was done, he sat the thing down, (after the ditch) the guy swiped it up looking at the ball lid and base going; "Wow, I thought there was like an extra ball type thing".



Goes to show that it’s not just secrets that make up the art of magic.





just my thoughts

donald la porte

May I wade into the fray?



I'm a "newbie".... Even though I'm 42 I have only been "playing" with the magic art for about 8 months. I have always had a love of magic and lived to see Tony Curtis play Houdini when it was on TV....



I praise and thank the internet.



If it weren't for the internet;



I would never have found the magic shop in New Orleans that has been so very helpful (great guys there).



I would never have learned about the greats of magic I had never even heard of before.



I would never have been exposed to the resources and products that have helped me take my first halting steps into the magic community.



I don't fear "exposure". I think it makes us all "think out of the box". It makes us do new things with old effects. It promotes A.E.I.O.U. I think it raises the bar, so to speak.



That's just my opinion... I could be wrong.