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Peter Cuddihy Veteran user Peter S. Cuddihy 369 Posts 
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Can anyone recommend a book or DVD that teaches the Ramsey Subtlety?
Thanks for your replies. |
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MarcelR Regular user Cologne, Germany 167 Posts
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I think you have a wrong impression. It is explained in different beginner tutorials, but this is not a "move". It is only a small "subtlety" that makes the spectator feel, that the shown hand is empty.
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funsway Eternal Order old things in new ways - new things in old ways 10001 Posts
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And the 'real secret' is not in any book. Learn to hold your middle and ring fingers together in all open hand displays and actions "forever and at all times."
Then, all Lower Finger Palm options are easy, natural and congruent. The selection of Ramsey, Lewig, Malini, Kapps, etc. as Subtleties is a matter of effect flow rather than person preference. The key is to have your hand appear the same whether a coin is in hiding or not - and to make natural actions with the hand. Practice brushing your teeth, eating, making change, etc. with a coin in LFP. You will automatically select the best Subtlety as needed to prevent any flash.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts
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To facilitate your search, the subtlety you are looking for is by John Ramsay, and an interesting variant was offered as indicated by my dear friend Funsway, by Homer Liwag. It differs from the Fred Kaps subtlety recently attributed by smart magicians to Max Malini
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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Peter Cuddihy Veteran user Peter S. Cuddihy 369 Posts
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Thank you very much for your replies, Marcel, Richard and Lawrence.
Marcel, I am aware that it is not a move. I looked in Bobo’s Book and although Ramsey is mentioned, the Subtlety is not. Richard, Thank you for the very sound advice about the need to practice and the importance of the naturalness of the display of the open palms. Lawrence, I have the Malini Book by Steve Cohen and will look in there to see if there is an explanation and an illustration. What I am looking for is an example of the Ramsey Subtlety being done by someone so that I know I am doing it correctly. I’ll keep looking. Thank you again everyone for your thoughtful replies. |
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GJo Loyal user 284 Posts
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Watch starting at 5:42 for Ramsey Subtlety.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAIiiF3S_og BTW, the FP technique shown is not ideal. Better is to grip with only the ring finger as it results in a more natural look. |
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Peter Cuddihy Veteran user Peter S. Cuddihy 369 Posts
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GJo,
Thank you very much for this YouTube link. The video was very helpful. That and Richard’s description contain excellent advice. Thanks again and stay well! Peter |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27306 Posts
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The Ramsay Legend (Andrew Galloway) teaches that item in context.
His style was to keep his hands relaxed but essentially closed, only showing the palm of his hand on occasion. Also he kept his eyes on his audience most of the time. For most of us, who may have learned to extend the fourth finger or (shudder) show empty hands the way Doug Henning did ... it's a huge tell.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3080 Posts
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Lately I have seen some raise the first finger in a sort of aha! gesture while holding a coin in fp and call it ransay subtelty. And I'm sure they spell it better than me. But I think doing it this way draws too much attention to what should not drawn attention to.
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Michael Rubinstein V.I.P. 4705 Posts
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Fonda, funny you should mention that. I make exactly that gesture when I want to make a point, and often show both hands at the same time with an identical gesture. I also often touch my thumb tip to the tip of my second finger as I gesture. For me, it gives a REASON to lift my hand with the palm (or palms) to the audience as opposed to just showing the palm with curled fingers. It is a natural position, makes logical sense as it matches what you are saying, and of course, shows the empty palm in the process. I would make the same gesture even if I wasn't hiding a coin with my curled fingers, and that is the point (pun intended). An alternative to not holding the first finger up is to hold a coin between the thumb and second ( or first) finger as you show your palm to the audience. In this case, the reason is to display the coin, subtlely giving the impression that the hand is otherwise empty. Of course, you could just curl the fingers and show your palm to the audience, but I think that just looks wrong (with exceptions).
For example, Mickey Silver just shows the palm empty with the fingers curled after his retention pass. But his gesture is consistent, and his arm and hands move in a way that defines Mickey's general movements. For him, it makes perfect sense because that is how he moves with all of his magic. For others, not so sure.
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NicholasD25 Veteran user 387 Posts
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Quote:
On Oct 18, 2023, fonda57 wrote: I think you are entirely correct. I first saw that type of gesture being used fifty years ago when I began studying coin magic. I thought it looked unnatural then and I still think so. I'm pretty sure it's not what Ramsey had in mind. |
MartinL New user Germany 15 Posts
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I think it depends on the context. If there is a reason to point up with your index, it should be fine. For example, there is a coins across routine by Rick Holcombe on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDbfmhbzksc) where he uses his wedding ring. He puts the ring on his index finger and takes it off his index finger. This is a completely natural gesture and shows that the hand is empty without signalling anything.
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NicholasD25 Veteran user 387 Posts
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Yes, that’s great. Gets the heat off of the rest of the hand.
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27306 Posts
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The finger pointing gesture folks are using comes from a moment in a coin vanish sequence.
The action is there to cover moving some coins out of the way to make room for another coin to wind up in FP. You can see that action in the footage which came with the Genii issue. ( <- which also might be online at Y* if you search and spell the guy's last name correctly  )
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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1KJ Inner circle Warning: We will run out of new tricks in 4389 Posts
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Quote:
On Oct 18, 2023, Michael Rubinstein wrote: Excellent explanation! I think the take-away here is that whatever you do, it has to look natural and have a reason. I do a routine that I developed based on Dr Larry Hass' gift routine where I use the RS to show something else that I am holding in my dirty hand, to demonstrate how I want them to cup their hand and then to cup my hand over their hand to make the gift item appear in their hand. When I do this, people often say that they saw my hand empty multiple times. KJ |
Posted: Oct 13, 2023 11:59 pm 