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writeall Special user Midland, Michigan 930 Posts 
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I have been thinking about challenging Matthew to a "magic off." I'm worried that he's a better magician than I am though.
What I want to know is if I have to do a series of podcasts that demonstrate a blend of umbrage, outrage and vitriol, or can I just send him a cheesy postcard? (Willing to swear if required!) Also, does anyone know if Matthew can afford to fly me to the next big magic convention? |
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Xiqual Inner circle Upper left quadrant 4935 Posts
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Sorry Ku,
You have obviously never been to the USA, especially Vegas. You would have a hard time spotting who was a native and who was a foreigner. If I was there I would have been screaming for Craig. I certainly HOPE that Justin Miller DOES NOT represent the good people of the USA. James Quote: On 2011-07-01 03:51, ku7uk3 wrote:
Still with the Chinese circus
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Shrubsole Inner circle Kent, England 2455 Posts
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On 2011-07-01 05:03, writeall wrote: Sorry, Matthew is just way too busy signing T-shirts, making personal appearances and opening supermarkets to have the time for trivial matters like magic offs. Of course this multi-talented rising star does have the funds to fly many times around the world, he likes to remain modest and not act flash with his cash. Let's just be content with him helping out Dave and Craig's project by taking time out of his busy schedule to make a gust appearance when he can.
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
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MitchellMac Loyal user 210 Posts
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On 2011-07-01 03:51, ku7uk3 wrote: Exactly you ROOT for your fellow countryman. The people in this case are not rooting, they are judging. If there was a football match between England and the US, and the referee was American, he's probably not bias because he's calling the game on what he SEEs. |
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Red Shadow  Inner circle 1791 Posts
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On 2011-07-01 11:15, MitchellMac wrote: Obviously you didn't see the last world cup - but I get your point. |
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gaffed Inner circle So far I've managed to gimmick 1817 Posts
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What!! You meant to tell me that Craig Petty is British!
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On 2011-07-01 05:08, Xiqual wrote: Definitely true about Vegas, and to some extent, here in Chicago! James, I can assure you that Justin Miller in no way shape or form represents what would be considered as the “norm” here in the U.S. I took the time to watch the video and listen to the podcast of him today as provided by Hank. I was honestly embarrassed watching his, what I can only assume, drug, and or alcohol induced ranting. It was quite disturbing and pathetic watching someone as talented as Justin reducing himself to babbling incoherent nonsense on You Tube for all to see. It was akin to watching the insane babbling of the Charlie Sheen videos, and one could only shake their collective heads in disbelief. I can only sincerely hope that Justin Miller gets some professional help before he destroys his career, along with himself and his family.
"Half this game is ninety percent mental."
~Yogi Berra~ "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." ~St. Thomas Aquinas~ Twitter – "A means of proving how pathetic and lonely you are in 140 characters or less." ~Anonymous~ |
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TheGreatRaymondo Special user Manchester, England 969 Posts
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Me and a few friends have been speaking and we all agree the WPR has pushed the Justin Miller thing about as far as it can go.
It really is getting boring. Time to move on! Craig & David: Please use the WPR to do what you set out to do - review magic! Not as a platform to lambast, criticise and slag off people you don't like. Most viewers are just interested. OK you don't get on with him... I think most regulars viewers of WPR have gathered this by now so just don't mention him or his magic. Stick to the reviews eh?
We are inclined to believe those whom we do not know because they have not yet deceived us...
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts
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On 2011-07-02 12:06, TheGreatRaymondo wrote: It appears that from their latest comments, that is their plan. I would be surprised to ever here them mention it again on the show. |
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TheGreatRaymondo Special user Manchester, England 969 Posts
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Well lets hope so. Let's concentrate on the magic and forget the school boy, playground fights. All very, very tiresome.
We are inclined to believe those whom we do not know because they have not yet deceived us...
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gaffed Inner circle So far I've managed to gimmick 1817 Posts
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On 2011-07-03 13:27, TheGreatRaymondo wrote: I’ll have to fully agree on that. Also, in my opinion, the name calling has to stop. Review the trick, and if you don’t care for it, or even despise it for that matter, I have no problem with that whatsoever, even to the extent of tossing it in a waste basket as garbage However, calling someone an idiot, etc. is inexcusable and downright childish. I fully understand calling someone out on what might very well be considered as a ridiculous trick, and or not giving due credit when it should be given, etc. By all means, if you so wish, call the trick crap, idiotic, imbecilic, moronic, or whatever descriptive word you wish to use, but don’t resort to using those same demeaning terms to the magician himself. It’s just not needed, and least of all, professional when reviewing something. But, like I said, that’s just my personal opinion.
"Half this game is ninety percent mental."
~Yogi Berra~ "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." ~St. Thomas Aquinas~ Twitter – "A means of proving how pathetic and lonely you are in 140 characters or less." ~Anonymous~ |
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dp Veteran user 345 Posts
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On 2011-06-29 21:29, lair wrote: Firstly thanks to everyone for their support regarding our decision about the Magic-Off. We would however like to address Michael P Lair's comments about the Wizard Product Review. Michael we must not be understanding you correctly as it seems like you are trying to suggest that we should never give an honest review to a particular product. You say we have bullied certain individuals - let's look at that list shall we? Jay Sankey - We have reviewed three of Jay Sankey products, two of them were awarded our Worker of the Week and the other one got a bad review (on the same show that we gave him Worker of the Week). Are you suggesting we bullied Jay by giving one of his products a bad review? We said Jay has no filter and that he brings out good products and bad products – only our opinion! We said that Hardcore is a bad DVD and explained why. Sean Scott - I am guessing you are talking about Render as this is the most recent Sean Scott effect we have reviewed. All we did with Sean is highlight the problems with Render that had already been discussed on the magic Café but had been ignored. As soon as we did this Sean totally changed his viewpoint, uploaded a whole bunch of free downloads addressing the problem and apologised to his customers. He has also sent us sample gimmicks showing his new ideas and we will be re-looking at Render in the near future. This all started off when we reviewed Render and we believe that things have changed for the better. Mathieu Bich - We called Mathieu an idiot because he exposed his trick on the trailer all over the internet by showing the workings on YouTube. Mathieu then came onto the show and discussed this with us and we ended up hugging - not the sort of thing you would do if you were being bullied! B.Smith - Both of B's products that we have looked at, we haven't liked. We were honest with our opinion. We do look forward to reviewing future productions of B’s. Matthew is always telling us how good Digital Conviction is! Jon Allen - Well I don't think we will ever understand this one. We gave him Worker Of the Week but I think he feels we trivialised his magic trick by having a laugh while we presented it. Personally we don't get him but after all the pm's we can see we are not alone on that. No doubt he will be back on here going over old ground but we still don’t get it. Vernet Magic - WE take it you mean the domino trick? We were nothing but honest Craig even took the time to perform it on the show. All we said is what anybody would say if they had seen the ad copy and then the product arrived in the post. We know that Vernet magic do have some great products but not this one! Bazar de Magia - One of their products we reviewed fell apart and the other wasn't practical. We know as a company they have some good products but we haven't seen them in their recent releases. Justin Miller - I don't think we need to go into more detail here but there was a lot more going on than product reviews. We are sorry that we let the whole situation escalate. Michael P Lair - Well Michael all we can say is we stand by our review. We invite anybody reading this to buy your DVD, put those effects into their working set and prove us wrong. There really is nothing personal and the only thing that causes concern is that you seem to think there is. We reviewed your product and your routines as presented by you. We can assure you that of you bring another product out and it is great, your past release will have no bearing on our review. This has been demonstrated in the past with Eric Ross, Justin Miller and Jay Sankey - two of which you mention above as examples of our bullying. Regarding our products, we would be quite happy for anybody to review our products because we accept as producers that is what happens when you put your invention out there. You can find many reviews of our personal products on the internet and in print. Although you have made it quite clear you don't want the show to continue it will naturally be continuing because it is the highlight of our week. Like ourselves most good producers aren’t worried about having their products reviewed. If we get a bad review we take it on the chin. If you are saying that you don’t want your products to be reviewed by the WPR in future we feel that this says a lot about the confidence you have in your products. Regards David & Craig Wizard Product Review
Close Up Magician & Illusionist - David Penn
Search The Wizard Product Review at http://www.worldmagicshop.com |
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Shrubsole Inner circle Kent, England 2455 Posts
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...and many many people on here fully agree with most of your findings.
So it seems the only ones creating any sort of fuss are some of those who have a vested interest in selling the trick and gaining money for it. (What a surprise!) WE (the viewers of the WPR) want to see tracks reviewed honestly and are still totally free to agree or disagree with Craig and Dave's opinions. This is a direct result of years of misleading adverts and flashy video demos that tell us nothing. Long may it continue.
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
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Red Shadow Inner circle 1791 Posts
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I would just like to chime in (again) and add my support to you; David and Craig. You know I have reviewed many of your products, and I haven't always been kind.
I gave Cansposed a bad review, Pool Ball Miracles an okay review and gave Keymaster and others a great review. This was all before WPR even existed. I want to just reflect for a moment though on why cansposed got a review when I felt it was bad - it was because as a reader, you don't know if you can trust a reviewers opinion if they are never willing to say anything bad. I could have kept my mouth shut and not said anything, but then my good reviews would not have been worth much. There have been many magic review sites and videos. The 'Reel Magazine' is a good example of that, even to the worst DVDs in existence, they sugar-coat their words to make them sound good. These reviews are useless and in-fact it was the useless reviews that made me cancel my subscription with them. The fact is, you have to give a bad review in order for others to know that when you give a good review, you actually mean it. You guys are the same with other magicians products, and I'll sure you'll be the same with mine when you eventually see one (one of them was shot in my parents hall, single static shot for the full 90 minutes)! I'm ready to hear the bad reviews, in fact do a search for my products on this site and you will see I already have some! But personally, all those bad reviews have helped me make the next DVD better. After Body Tricks got reviewed, the main criticism was lack of credits. For the next DVD I went credit crazy, referencing everybody just to make sure I didn't miss anyone out. Other reviews have said the lack of live performances was disappointing, so all my recent DVDs have a live performance at Illusions Magic Bar for EVERY trick, so you know its actually workable in the real world. Any artist who wants to improve their work will learn more from a bad review than a good review, and yes it hurts when we don't hear what we want to hear. But I applaud you for the WPR and your honesty on there. To all the artists reading this, I am a magician who makes and releases products and I too have had bad reviews. I learn from it too make the next release better and use the discs as coasters instead. I know David and Craig have 1st hand experience at this (mainly because its my fault). They have learnt to take it on the chin, and be the bigger man. Both you guys are my heroes in magic and I look forwards to WPR every single week. Thankyou. Steve |
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equivoque Special user 867 Posts
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Firstly thanks to everyone for their support regarding our decision about the Magic-Off. David and Craig, I think that you gave "Drink Magic" quite a fair review. In Magic Magazine's May Market Place, Peter Duffie gave this DVD a similar review. Like the both of you, he mentioned the IBM creativity award and then went on to some criticisms which included: "However, in both versions the gimmick is quite obvious to the naked eye..." "While the preparations are not arduous in any way, there was nothing on this DVD that made we want to go through the process." Seems like a similar independent review to me. |
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Jon Allen V.I.P. England 1771 Posts
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[quote]On 2011-07-05 08:27, dp wrote:
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Jon Allen - Well I don't think we will ever understand this one. We gave him Worker Of the Week but I think he feels we trivialised his magic trick by having a laugh while we presented it. Personally we don't get him but after all the pm's we can see we are not alone on that. No doubt he will be back on here going over old ground but we still don’t get it. Oh dear… Seriously? You say "I don't think we will ever understand this one" after all that was written by me and others? It seems if you can't be bothered to read the messages in the thread about that week's review then I *would* need to go over old ground. Let me know which is easier for you. I love the “No doubt he will be back on here going over old ground”… which is actually what you have done. Using that phrase is a classic way of trying to silence someone or trivialise their reply. I wonder if there will be the usual type of follow-up “See, he’s gone over old ground”. That would be too cliché. "Personally we don't get him...". Seriously? You make a heavy insinuation that I ripped off a trick that bears your name then ignore the option to discuss it with me. Why the heavy insinuation? The performance is then blatantly not done in the usual style, although Craig was trying. So, exactly what is it that you don’t get? Simple question for you David - Do you honestly think I copied or ripped off Coinvexed? If not, why insinuate I did before reviewing my product? From all your replies to date, it you are willingly ignoring my simple questions. I wonder if you will continue to ignore them...
Creator of iconic magic that you will want to perform.
The Silent Treatment, The Pain Game, Paragon 3D, Double Back, Destination Box and more. Available at www.onlinemagicshop.co.uk |
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Xiqual Inner circle Upper left quadrant 4935 Posts
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No, the main criticism was that you ripped off Banachek's pk touches.
James Quote: On 2011-07-05 13:30, ku7uk3 wrote:
Still with the Chinese circus
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lair New user Michael P. Lair 44 Posts
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David Penn stated "There really is nothing personal and the only thing that causes concern is that you seem to think there is." Excellent damage control! Let's even the playing field here...the review of 'Love Cards' on p. 80 of the July 2011 MAGIC magazine literally ripped your effect apart. Of course, it was just an 'opinion' and I'm sure that it didn't make you wince at all when you read each line. Let's use our imaginations and add to that review 2 guys with a popular YouTube weekly show, clapping their hands and playing back scenes from 'Love Cards' and saying what a piece of 'crap' and 'rubbish' it is, giving it a 0% and -250% respectively while laughing to the point of tears, and then let's have numerous avid 'fans' posting comments that 'Love Cards' sucks, is 'rubbish', etc...and you just might start getting the picture of why several of us are angry with the reviews and the aftermath of your weekly review show and what it has done to many of our products...embarrassment...loss of revenue, etc. You probably had a lot of money invested in 'Love Cards' too...well, so did I in my product as others I mentioned have invested in their products!
Your posts always have the tone that you can't see that you've done anything wrong. Mine and others' points of dissension don't seem to sink in with you, and I quite predictably get beat up by your fans when I post here...just not worth it for me. I still feel very bad for the people in my original note...Jon Allen for one is an incredible magician and person...you may get support from the people who post here, but the top professionals in the business will continue to lower their respect for you until you can address Jon and others and put all to rest in a respectable, fair way. Perhaps your goal is just to get your YouTube numbers and World Magic Shop's sales as high as possible with the belief 'There's no such thing as 'bad' press'! Hopefully, your ride in this business will end some day with your dignity and respect from other magicians intact. Michael Lair |
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Wizard of Oz Inner circle Most people wish I didn't have 5169 Posts
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As a magic buyer, not a creator, tell me if I'm wrong with this assumption...
A magic creator presumably feels strongly enough about her or his original effect (let's assume it is original), to release it to the magical community. Now, here is a key point... do they make it available for free, or, do they make it available for sale? Either way, by releasing it to the magic community, they are open to criticism. Why? Because it is, on some level art, and art is open to criticism. However, if they put it up for sale, they are more likely to face criticism and reviews because buyers, like myself, like to know about what we are buying before we spend our hard-earned cash on it. And maybe this is a good thing. For everyone. For buyers it ultimately prevents or at least minimizes bad magic from entering the marketplace, and, keeps the creators on their game to put out only the best quality effects they can offer...not just the quick, make-some-money-fast-while-they-can effects. For creators it cleanses the selling field so it's easier for the cream to rise to the top. Less clutter, more of an opportunity to shine. I've read some complaints from magic producers regarding lost investments due to lower sales from unfavorable magic reviews. If you invest money in creating, and selling us magic we have no interest in buying, it's not our fault. Don't treat us like children who just buy what you put out, without doing research first. And, this research includes reviews from reviewers whose opinions we trust. Just like we would do with any other purchase that mattered to us. Because you've made an investment doesn't make your effect good, or you worthy of recouping your expenses. Before you release a product, think of what you'll be facing, and whether your product can "make the grade." If your product fails, you need to look at why, accept the losses, and try harder the next time. Tell me I'm wrong.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts
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Craig,
If you go back my old posts about your show, you'll see that I LOVE your show and think you guys perform a very valuable service. I also believe strongly that you give an honest review of the products you look at as you can. However .... after being the FIRST one to bring it up, (not Jon Allen), I have to say that I pretty much agree 100% with his comments above. And if you go back over the discussion, I wasn't the only one who agreed with him. I think you and David are wearing blinders on this because of some issue you have with Jon and aren't willing to look at the other side. I decided I should re-watch the review to see if my memory was accurate. In the introduction, the two of you pretty much accuse him of plagerism which kind of sets us up to your negative opinion of Jon. Then you say some nic things about other stuff he's done which lessens the blow a bit but I would suggest the damage was done as evidenced by the fact that I had completely forgotten that part until re-watching it. You state very fairly that you used to use it but then you create a pretty big negative by saying how quickly it gets grubby. (I would think this a problem with almost all packet tricks using a gaff.) I have a hard time seeing your issue with that since the trick is pretty easy to re-create with some very common gaffed cards. You don't even need to re-buy the entire trick from Jon, (even as inexpensive as Jon has made it.) At this point, I was looking forward to your demonstration of the trick since I personally LOVE the trick and wanted to see your take on it. Instead, I get probably your worst presentation of any trick you've ever performed on the show which lots of back and forth with David, bad jokes, bad impersonation, etc. etc. (Hey, at least you didn't flash.  You did ask for Matthews honest opinion of your performance so I guess it's OK if I give you mine.
In the end, you score it nicely, and you give it worker of the week. I was going to say, probably the most un-excited worker of the week, but in re-watching I again will have to change my opinion from what I recalled and say you're fairly enthusiastic about the trick. So YES, you gave him worker of the week but I think you were able to do it while at the same time being rude to Jon and pretty negative about Jon himself if not this trick. So, that's probably WAAAAY more analysis than the whole things deserves but it seems that Jon has tried to let it rest but you want to keep putting in your digs on him. Personally, I think you owe him a small apology and I would love to see the two of you bury the hatchet. Mike P.S. Still love the show and hope to say Hi at Magic Live! |
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Wizard of Oz Inner circle Most people wish I didn't have 5169 Posts
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I agree. Jon Allen = good. WPR = good.
Kiss and make up. OK. Don't kiss. NO ONE needs to see that. But make up...please.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
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Posted: Jul 1, 2011 09:03 am 