Something has been on my mind as of lately. I wish to share it with my friends here at the Café.

I will begin with a question: Are older Magic effects, routines, etc. losing their luster and entertainment value?

It seems that the lay audiences are growing tired of The Linking Rings, of sawing the lady in half, etc.

It seems like I get much better reactions from newer effects (that people have yet to see), than the old rings.

Am I the only one with this observation?

It's my observation that there are darned few "newer effects," merely spins on original effects.

Or to put it another way, I keep finding effects that I thought were new -- and I'm finding them in Tarbell!

Astinus,

I will be the first to offer this, but probably not the last.

The audience is not there to see the effect. They are there to see the performer.

It's the singer, not the song.

Look outside of magic. Take music, for example. If you go to a Blues Festival (an extreme example), the audience is not there to hear new Blues songs. They are there to see how particular performers will interpret well-known songs. The "standard Blues changes" are so standard that anyone listening knows just about exactly what's coming next, even in a "new" song.

In film, do we need more car-chase movies? Apparently so. People don't seem to get tired of them.

I have not seen many performances of the Linking Rings, but they were all really different. I saw a great comedy version, I have seen beautiful classic stage versions done to music, and I saw a terrific performer use large rings as a closeup effect at a table in a bar! I would not have missed any of these to see something "new" instead. You also have to consider that I know how it works, and it doesn't really matter. If I didn't know, I might even enjoy it more.

Then there is the Cups and Balls! Don't even get me started on this. I never get tired of it. Everyone uses a slightly different sequence and style. It is a complete magic show, there on top of a table, no smoke, mirrors, music or special effects. Talk about a showcase for the performer!

Yours,

Paul

Hmmm, that is a difficult q. to answer !

One can only get tired of *anything* of that kind, if one has seen it too many times..

This so will also go for the so called *newer* effects..

The classics are classics because they have stood the test of time and are often *basic* magic effects that are well remembered by the audience..they like them an could follow what was going on, so they remember them..

BUT, they only like them when they don't se them performed every single day the very same way...

Still, a performer able to entertain (lets say f.ex. Paul Daniels) can present an effect another magician has done the day before and still get great reactions..

It is ALSO a matter of twisting that effect using a unique presentation..

Anything done repeatively the same way gets boring..at least for laymen..

I can watch a DVD with Fred Kaps doing the same routine over and over again..the same goes for Albert Goshman and a couple of others..and I do watch it over and over again..but I am not *normal*... , if you understand what I mean

Laymen have to be enteratained, but they are not, when they se the same routine over and over again, done in exactly the same way, accordingly to the instruction the magician is using after hre bought a trick..

The C&B can be done in a lot of ways..and so they are different..

Seing f.ex. *bishthemagish* doing them, is not the same then seing Gazzo or Michael Ammar doing them.

They use diff. styles and diff. presentations and I'm sure layppl (and magicians) would enjoy seing all 3 performers doing them..

So I don't think it is the *trick* itself, but the same presentation that tires the audinece..

Classics are IMHO still those who do play best..some of the newer effects are often boring and too *constructed* and not often entertaining..

Use the classics, but don't show them each and every day to the same audience..

I'm very much in doubt re the so called newer effects..as you know, there are only a very few basic effects in magic..and dealers and *inventors* regularily come up with stuff that is plain boring and not at all interesting..but it is *new* and GTM- for them!..

Beware of this..

Only my opinion..I've seen to much junk (effects) solely invented to GTM for the dealers and *inventors*..

Simple, easy to understand effects is the answer..and all of the classics fullfill that premise!!

Avoid the complicated stuff nobody can follow..

Excellent point. I generally hate watching The Linking Rings, but when I saw Rick Thomas perform his routine, I was amazed.

I guess it truly is the Performer and not the effects.

Then let this be a challenge to everyone. Make your routines entertaining...to be loved by your audience. Don't just perform them to perform them.

Yes, MAGIC MUST EVOLVE OR IT WILL DIE.

Personally I think in 10-15 years a stage magic show will be hard to find, and an era will die. This is natural and probably should happen to keep it alive.

Singer's often complain about doing their signature songs over and over and over...
I'll bet Lance Burton is tired of performing his Gas Light act, but, he does it just the same.
If the linking rings are "just a trick" in your arsenal it will show through in your performance. The rings mean something to me and my audiences love them.

In my humble opinion... If you want to do a successful show and make money with it magicians should do a show that pleases the audience. In other words let your audience choose your effects.

Keep in what they like and git rid of what they do not like... It is as simple as that.

One of the best kept secrets of magic is to talk to your audience after the show and find out what they like. But also what they do not like.

Taking things out is as important as keeping things in. Do not keep an effect if the audiences do not like it over time - even if you like it.

Then you will be on your way to a successful show for audiences in the real world.

I think it's more in the minds of the magicians than the audience. Magic=sawing a lady in half and linking some rings together, I want to be different and innovative, hence I'll perform different effects.

There's the key! If the old stuff is stale, don't go for newer stuff, find the stuff that's so old, no one remembers it.

Bish I have to respectivly disagree, one thing I definatly do not want to do is have the audience dictate to me what I will do and not do. I agree that you should ask them what they liked but that does not mean that you have to do whatever they want to be successful in this business. One needs to do effects that call to them. magic needs to evolve new things need to be done or this art will die.

with all respect Evan.

Bish I have to respectivly disagree, one thing I definatly do not want to do is have the audience dictate to me what I will do and not do. I agree that you should ask them what they liked but that does not mean that you have to do whatever they want to be successful in this business.

HI,
If you want to be full time pro and stay full time pro it pretty much does !

People always buy what they want and not what they need, magic will only die as an art (or at least revert to magicians who only perform as hobbiests) if we fail to give them what they want.
Phillip

RE: "find the stuff that's so old, no one remembers it."

Good point. In this instant gratification, instant download world people's attention and memory spans are short, at best.

"Here's a brand new effect, never attempted on this or any other stage! I will, with your kind endulgence, attempt to materialize silver dollars from the thin air around us, and deposit said coinage in this metalic bucket... Is that coin behind your ear sir?"

Seriously, I find practicle gems in the older texts on a regular basis. Sometimes they are in need of a tweak or two to bring their relevance into the 21st century, but more often the truly classic routines are timeless and as relevant today as they ever were.

Best,

Mike

Bish, I can agree with this of course!

BUT, the big prob might be, that the opinions you get are as different as when asking anybody for anything else..

Right??

I don't know the answer, but I have a hunch, the result would be like I outlined..

It reminds me of a guy asking all his friends what car he should buy..

He'll get a hundred diff. opinions..

I stopped doing this -I'm talking about cars-, I simply decide myself what I like..

Transforming this to magic, I said I agreed-and I do, BUT somehow I think the result of a such query would be as outlined?

As I have no experience re this (asking the specs after a show,) what can you add favouring what you originally said?

This is a serious request and in no way ment to embarras you or telling you your thoughts re this are wrong..
I just want (theoretically) explore this more, based on what I mentioned above..
100 diff. answers..

Ricky Jay and his 52 Asssistants. Routines older than dirt. One of the best parlor magic shows in recent history.
Classics are classic for a reason, they stand up through the fads and trends. Recipes, songs, stories, and yes, even magic routines have their classics. To study them is to see what this art is truly about.
Escoffier, Berlin, Homer, Hofzinser or DaVinci. Take your pick, learn your roots. Embrace the fundemental beauty of what you do, it will be reflected in anything you do. Watch how quickly you get to decide what people what to hear, see, eat or read. It won't matter as long as it's you doing it.

I agree. The classics have stood the test of time and people still enjoy seeing them. There are enough variations that they will never grow old, to me anyway.

Regan

It's funny you should bring this up. I think we magicians are rather insulated. We tend to think that everyone in the general public knows who David Blaine is, watched the masked magician, or knows about thumb tips and the key ring. Believe it or not most of the general public hasn't seen much magic at all in the past few years. Most of the public magic that's been put out in the mass media has been too boring.

I did some little experiments this past summer when I was busking. During my show I mentioned the two Davids. Blaine's name pretty universally (except for three pre-adolescent boys) drew blank stares. Most people did recognize Copperfield, but, Charlottesville being a university town, thought I was talking about the Dickens novel.

I did simple silk vanishes with a thumb tip and was only called on it by one of my students (who won't be passing math this year, by the way (just kidding)). There is a population of young boys who know about this but generally "most" people do not.

I also did cups and balls and linking rings, and over the course of a summer had over two dozen people come up to me and say "I thought one of those rings must have a hole in it, but I guess not." or "My uncle (whoever) did that cup trick but he used an extra ball."

Another comment I received by several people over the summer was something along the lines of, "It's great to see your magic, no one does that stuff anymore, and I wish they would."

Bottom line is, if you have the technique and a great presentation, you can do the most classic, "over exposed" pieces of magic, and the general public will love it, even if they think they know the secret. It's not about the trick. There is always a need for good magic, done by a good magician.

Mark

Loved your article..

You mentioned:

*I did simple silk vanishes with a thumb tip and was only called on it by one of my students (who won't be passing math this year, by the way (just kidding)). *

Punish that guy who catched the TT handling..

BUT, you could have baffled him too with your handling of the TT !
Study Salvanos work or do a search on this forum..somewhere I described a handling where the TT almost never is *in place*...

It is in place for a very few seconds, and when there, it is covered from all angles, all the time..

No laymen -even knowing about that the vanishing silk usually is done by use of the TT- would have challenged you re this..maybe they will mention they have seen some magician earlier doing a silkvanish using a TT, but he/they could SE you didn't use a such..

I always clearly show both thumbs of my hands (without drawing unnecessary attention to them) to be as they should be..there is no TT at any time..

It isn't hard to do..just another handling and some thinking..

I assure you, even ppl knowing that util have absolutely no clue where that silk went...

Watch Salvano, get his tapes/lecture..you'll be amazed what is possible with a util far too well known in public circles..

What's interesting is that when performers place certain effects aside as "old hat," a few years later they become "new blockbusters" again, having become re-introduced to a new public.

Steve

I have to agree that building a rapport with your audience/sponsors after the show and finding out what THEY liked is crucial to continued success.

Just because we as magicians are jaded to 'classic' effects doesn't mean that lay audiences are. Magicians know the classics inside and out and have probably seen them dozens of times. Lay people, on the other hand, may only see a few live performances of 'Linking Rings' 'Rice Bowls' or 'Torn and Restored Paper' in the entire lifetimes.

Major entertainment conglomerates spend millions every year to find out what people want. Why should we ignore their example?