How many of you can qualify for this job of professional liar? Are any of you sooo good at weaving a wonderful tale, that it has become an art too you?

I don't mean this in a malicious or nasty way, just that you are so confident and adaptable that you can lead a person to belive what you are saying, even though it really is BIGTIME nonsense!

Also, if you are a pro-liar. How hard is it to keep a straight face?

Oh! And what are your top greatest lies (that you are proud of getting away with).

Everytime I supposedly do something, yet actually do another, yet everyone's eyes are where I directed their thoughts towards. Wow, I'm a great liar!!! It's easy for me to keep a straight face, as these lies are harmless, though it makes my wife question my sincerety about other things, especially magic purchases.
Magically, Jack

Last Friday I made a stranger hold a folded A4 blank sheet of paper for 3 minutes.
I walked up to them an told them to hold it 'just so' and went into a small routine to strengthen it. I then walked off an observed the guy from behind (after a small detour), It took him 3.14 minutes to give up.

My current magical lie is about BlackTigers.
I say. These decks are only given to magicians who pass a dark arts ceremony. When you hold them you can almost feel dark power flowing through them
Hold the cards gently, notice how these cards like to be held, they thrill at a humans touch! (this gets them edgy). but you can see how a lie developes and how it can set a scene.

There was some sort of online poll conducted a few months ago that had two video clips of Max Maven, one telling the truth and the other a lie. The poll was to see if people could pick the right one.

Unfortunately, I never heard the outcome.

Lying is part of my routine. I lie constantly...and it gets laughs at times....

Lying is a skill....one that I have been developing since I was a young child.

I have tried to limit myself to just one lie per day. That was it. Now everything else I say today will be true...

What I say in performance is part of a script. The performance is a sort of play done close-up with direct interaction with the audience.

From that perspective... no lies required.

Look! the Bolivian army on maneuvers! (gosh I miss Red Dwarf)

I'm an actor and a storyteller. I'm not a liar. There is a big difference.

Punx made me aware of this once, right after the publication of Magical Adventures and Fairy Tales. He was visiting with me, and I said, "So here we are, professional liars."

He was outraged. He said, "I am not a liar! I am a storyteller!"

I experienced an epiphany then.

From then on, I had far less trouble with believability, because I had no need to lie. Everything I said was true ... in the context of the presentation.

Partizan asks: "And what are your top greatest Lies (that you are proud of getting away with)."

I don't tell lies.

(And I'm kinda proud of [almost] getting away with that one!)

About 10 years ago, I worked as an undercover police officer for the in Boston, MA Drug Enforcement Agency. It was basically my job to lie. When your entire career is about lying, it gets into your blood, and you completely forget that you are fabricating a story, You actually become the character that you are portraying. Most of the time, I was portraying a junkie when we did stings or "hunts" as we called them. I was put into a lot of situations where the ability to tell a convincing lie meant the difference between my own life and death, so I guess I had a lot riding on my abilitiy to weave a false tale! After 7 years, it got to be too much, and I retired.

I now spend most of my time on the Magic Café, making up stories about being a former Drug Enforcement Agent in Boston! Hahahahaha!

Hehehehehe! Nice DD.

Bill, A good lie does in fact become a story. Its much easier to embellish within the framework of a story/tale.
Without a good context with which to cloak the mis-truth, The lie is weak and easily knocked down.
Punx was lying to himself and not facing the truth of your statement. This would be apparent in the immediate reply of rationalization conforming your statement to his lie. (so it would seem to me). He really doesn't like being labeled as a liar. This speaks volumes.

Partizan,

Does an actor in a movie lie? When Sean Connery said, "I'm Bond, James Bond", was he lying?

If a performer is using a script in a theatrical performance and the audience knows they're acting, then they aren't lying, at least not lying to the audience. (The script could require they play the part of a liar, but that's still not real lying.)

I believe that was the point that Bill Palmer was making. He's right.

Mr. Hallahan (to distinguish you from the "other" Bill, haha):

Thanks for pointing out the obvious - no sarcasm intended whatsoever. I'm very glad you said that, though the fact that this still has to be explained puzzles me no end. (Apropos of nothing: anent your signature, I inform you in all humility that I believe I may be just a bit more unique than you )

To Partizan: Your claims about Punx are...um...conjectural, to put it mildly. I'd think it hard to justify such hipshots on the basis of Bill (Palmer's) anecdote. Moreover, if Punx's reactions speak volumes, I guess Mr. Palmer's acquiescence to Punx's logic should bespeak about the same thing. So Bill Palmer is lying to himself also? It occurs to me that certainly those who are not lying do not like to be labeled "liar."

Moreover, why do you seem so gleeful about considering yourself a liar?

Not just by saying it. But he was employed to back up this lie that 007 exists. He performed a part and in so doing, immersed himself into the lie to bring the character to life.

Seraph, I was not aware of my gleeful disposition, or that I consider myself a liar. Whilst it is true that I find mis-truths are an interesting tool.

I have, over the years, become adept at acting. This has had the side effect of me being able to lie with a straight face. As far as the ones I am most proud of, I really can't say because they are still active and in play. If I spilled here, it would, with my luck, come back to haunt me.

Another of my best goes back to grade school. I told a lie big enough to get one of my tormentors expelled. I have to say I have always been proud of that one. More because he deserved it than anything else.

So am I a Professional Liar? That depends on who you ask. After all, I AM in Law Enforcement.

You miss the point entirely. Punx was making a very important distinction between lying and acting (in the context of telling a story).

Is "Little Red Riding Hood" true? No. Is it a lie? Only if you see things in total black and white. Is it a story? Yes.

And this was the point Punx was making. Now, I don't want to be condescending, but Partizan obviously doesn't know much about Punx, because he refers to Punx in the present tense, and Punx passed away more than 10 years ago.

I posted the following in another thread. It explains Punx's feelings about the story and its value, and, more important, why it is not a lie.

If I were translating this now, I would call it "When Truth Encountered the Story."

When the Fairytale Encountered Truth

There, where the forest is so dark that the sunlight must strain to make its way through the leaves and branches, is a secret path. Moss and roots almost cover it up. Nowhere else does it smell so much of pine needles, leaves, and wood, and nowhere else is one so near to the spirit of the forest as here. One only needs to listen to learn its language: the silent breathing of the trees, the whisper of the leaves, and the hidden voices of the creatures of the forest.

One shimmering summer day, the Fairytale strolled in the shadowy coolness of this path. It wore a light, glimmering robe, made of a thousand flowers. In its black hair were long, colorful ribbons and in its hand, a basketful of merry red mushrooms. It strode along with a hovering, dreamy gait, accompanied by a circle of sunlight which followed beneath its feet like a golden shadow. When it hovered over the spots of sunlight which scuttled along here and there on the floor of the forest, they shone like pure golden ducats.

On the same path, coming from the other direction, strolled a radiant woman.
If the holy miracle of womanly love could be measured by human means, then this creature would be as perfect and complete as a marble sculpture by Michelangelo. Her brightly shining hair fell from her proud head to her hips. The song of this lady was so magnificently harmonious that it seemed as if it would follow her gaze, unstopped, which reached into eternity.

But the Fairytale stood right there in the middle of the path, and, with its dark, golden gaze, looked enchanted into a pair of eyes from which it saw the blue reaches of heaven radiate. And the Fairytale had an astonished expression upon its face.

"Truth," it said with its darkly mysterious voice, "what do you seek upon my path?"

"Nothing is so well hidden that I can't find it or so distant that I can't reach it."

And the voice of Truth rang like a great bronze bell of heaven, struck by a mighty clapper.

"Fairytale," spoke the lady further, "you are the only thing that I have not been able to fathom. You encircle yourself with your glowing fairy ring whose border I am unable to cross. Take this spell away, so I may know you."

The Fairytale smiled as only a fairytale can, "No, sister, if you wish to know
me, you must know all of me. What would a Fairytale be without the spell of secrecy? Enter the golden circle and learn of the deep truth that lies in mystery."


"Why do you call me 'sister'?" asked the woman, and the infinite expanse and
coolness of the ocean streamed from her eyes. "I seek only that which is clear and true. I can look right through a man, as if he were a glass vessel, and read all the lies in his thoughts. What truth have you ever proclaimed?"

The eyes of the Fairytale took on a questioning look and a serious, wistful
expression came over its childlike face.

"What is this--Truth? Is it that from which men create great proverbs, yet which they fear like a poisonous serpent?--Is it that which they always bear on their lips, but never in their hearts?--Is it that before which they throw their doors open so all can see it, and against which they seal their gates, with thousands of locks, to keep it from crossing their thresholds?--Is it that which glows like a spark only in the eyes of children and saints, which is extinguished by the slightest gust of wind?"

Then there was a long silence, until Truth spoke:

"You hold a strange mirror before me, little Fairytale. Nevertheless, I recognize my face. Yes, there is a great dilemma in the nature of truth. Men seek me, yet they flee from me. They build monuments to me in stone and bronze, yet they pass by with their faces turned. They can't live without me, but most of them think they would perish without lies." And with inexorable seriousness, "Yet my path is unalterable, and follows eternal laws, just like the courses of the stars. I must stride on, following the trail of the lie and again and again hold my mirror to its benighted countenance. Time and time again, I have found it. Tomorrow and forever I will pursue it, without mercy, as long as it creeps into the darkness before the light from my eyes. Then, between it and me, on the threshold between light and darkness, the conscience of man will stand firm, and I can return to God and tell Him that my mission has been accomplished."

The Fairytale had humbly bowed its head, and as it now looked up, it seemed to have tears in its eyes.

"Sister," it said softly, "we ARE traveling the same path. Only you stride along the great, noisy streets, and I walk along the quiet, hidden paths. You travel in the cruel light and I in the gentle twilight. You hold your cold, merciless mirror in front of the eyes of men, and I tell them stories, in which they find themselves in their misery and wallowing in their gutters. Lies and Truth battle in my stories, also Misery and Courage, and Cowardice and Heroism. The noble cause always triumphs in the end. Thus I teach, gently and subtly, what the will of God is."

Then, once more, there was silence and such stillness that the buzzing of the
silver-winged cloud of mosquitos sounded like a roar.

"Fairytale," said Truth then, with a tremble in her voice, "Truth finds its way
without crutches. Why do you weave it into the colorful tapestry of your fairytales, so one can no longer recognize and unravel the one from the other?"

"Because I am the Fairytale," and it smiled again. "You see, when I come to men, then there is a happy glow on their faces. They open their hearts to listen because they know that they have no truth to fear. Just a fairytale. And they laugh and weep, as I will it. They hate the misers and villains who live in my fairytales, even when they are the reflections of themselves. They look humbly and respectfully to the Holy One, whom they like to mock in reality. --But all of this remains in the hearts of men, and when they close
them, it still continues to sound in secret. First quietly. Yet one day, it
will warn us noisily, 'All Evil avenges itself upon the Earth!'"

"Then the fairytale has become truth and beats in the breast of men as their
conscience."

Then it happened that Truth felt constrained to allow her proud head to bow,
and she saw that she stood in the golden disk of the circle of light of the Fairytale, which had silently grown and encompassed her white feet.--The radiant veil of her hair had fallen forward and concealed her face.--Silence.

Until the dark bell of her voice said, "Tell a fairytale."

A warm glow came over the face of the Fairytale. With a gesture of eternal love it took the large hand of the woman and strode with her, deeper into the golden darkness of their forest. And the shining of the light around their moving feet accompanied them as if a glowing ray from the eye of God followed their steps.

And the Fairytale told--a fairytale. The first one, full of puzzles and secrets, immediately enchanted Truth, and she asked again and again for another, and yet another, just like Scheherazade in "1001 Nights," Finally, she said, "Tell me all the fairytales you know."

How could she know that she longed for the impossible? How can one scoop out all the water in the ocean? For each time a fairytale is told, a new one is
born, and so on and on.


The most beautiful ones are the stories in which the unreal happens, in which magicians, fairies, witches, gnomes, and elves appear. It was just one of these that the Fairytale told Truth, and the more unreal the scenarios were that the Fairytale played out before the Truth, the more enchanted she was by
them.

And so it came to pass, that the Fairytale began to tell of modern times, and the Truth began to realize that Fantasy is the basis of reality, because all of reality is based upon Fantasy; because whatever the human spirit conceives, no matter how fantastic it seems, one day it becomes reality.

And so the Fairytale and the Truth go hand in hand for all of time.

Bravo Bill - thanks for posting that


Perhaps part of the challenge here is the term
"lie" and the negative connotations with it (for the most part)

Some of us when performing may not choose to portray ourselves, our craft, our stories or our enchantments in what can be perceived in a negative light

Others may work from the angle of getting over on their audiences. Maybe the audience becomes a mark for their character

Different strokes for different folks
and so on and so on and scoobie doobie doobie

So no I'm not a professional liar though I may spread a little misdirection, enchantment, bewilderment and so forth along the way every now and again

I'm sorry Bill if I have caused any offense, as I was not aware of Punx or his passing. I just took your post at face.

That was a very beautifully crafted illustration. It was a pity you had to anthropomorphize a Fairy tail and the Truth to illustrate your point. By ascribing human attributes to objects wonderful tales can be crafted.
I started this thread out of an interest in lying. not the moral and ethical aspects of a lie. or the implications of your actions. But for those people who admit the truth to themselves that they are competent liars. This thread was started for people who lie, to discuss various forms of lying.

If anyone who reads this, thinks it's wrong to lie, then they are on the wrong thread.


This is the mantra of a liar Bill. Everything I said was true... in context!!! is the statement of a liar.

Every lie I tell is true to me, and thus becomes true to the person I lie to. You might say, I lie with the truth as pointed out by your well crafted tale.

Whit, this is excellent..honest it really is.

Best thoughts,
John Smetana

Honest? If I were you, I wouldn't take much that I would say if I was me seriously. Did I tell you I was a pathological liar?