I'm not excatly sure this is the right forum to post this in, so forgive me if I'm off.

When looking at Tenyos products a while ago, I was again reminded of a question I've had before.

Why are there so few Japanese (and Asian) people involved in magic? Or at least that we see and hear about?

This question is related to another thing I've been thinking of. After looking at some of Tenyos products, and thinking back of the few Asian magicians I've seen, it strikes me that Asian magic is very different from western in appearence.

I get the impression that many of these effects are very... hmmm... "visual" (which I guess is good) but also "illogical" if you see what I mean. "A little red ball is placed in a flower and when a yellow scarf is...". The western world also has this type of "beautiful and illogic" magic, but not to the same degree from what I've experienced.

Could this be cultural differences? Or am I suffering from prejudicus seriosis? Or perhaps there is a simple explanation such as that I only get to see this particular type of magic because the visual aspects make it universally understood (i.e no language problem)?
(But, still, why can I only name some 2-3 magicians that are Asian - it is a very populated area - so there should at least be many books from there, no?)

Please don't interpret this as anything negative towards the Asian culture or anything like that. It's not.

/Matias

Maybe it's a matter of exposure, as in what we are exposed to.
I wish I had more access to the magical ideas from magicians in Asia.

:sun:

Maybe its because we only identify the Great names in magic who came to us via 19th century vaudeville theatre. This was a european and N. American industrialized nations experience with touring shows, whereas African Indian and Asian continents may have had a more ethnic traditional theatre unchanged for centuries.

Ouch, this could open a big can of worms, but I'll try:

(By the way, I am Japanese American, and I'm talking about things in the USA, as I see them)

For starters, how many "big name" Asians are there in, say, pop music? Stand-up comedy? How many of Hollywood's leading men/women are Asian? The representation of Asians in general American popular culture is pretty low, so I think it just extends to magic.

As far as overall (amateur as well as professional) Asian involvement in magic, I think it depends a little on where you're from. There are quite a few, here in the San Francisco Bay Area.

I can't think of too many magicians from Asia, either (Shimada, Shigeo Takagi, Julianna Chen). It pretty much is just a matter of what you're exposed to; I can't name very many German, Russian or Norwegian magicians, either.

Differences in thinking between East and West? Hmm, maybe. When I saw the recent airing of the China episode "Penn and Teller's Magic and Mystery Tour" on The Learning Channel, I was struck by how different the approach was to so much of the magic. But on the flip side, a lot of the Chinese magic was VERY "Western" (split fans, cigarette productions, linking rings, square circle type productions), and a lot of the "Eastern" magic could easily go over well in the West, I think. Julianna Chen has been using the Chinese mask change techniques in her act.

As for books, I don't think very many magic books get translated from non-English languages to English, do they? Giobbi's "Card College" is one example I can think of, but I don't see any other examples in my library. Here in the States, Kaufman and Greenberg did publish "New Magic of Japan 1988," "Sawa's Library of Magic," and "The Amazing Miracles of Shigeo Takagi" (and I agree, some of the effects in these books suggest to me that Japanese magicians, at least, have a slightly different approach, both to effect and method).

I'll shut up now.

Come down to Hawaii if you want some Asian magicians.

I had a friend lecture in Japan, and he came back with some killer card material that they were working on over there (very western style), a different flavor? Sure, but there is a difference in style and selection of material between L.A. area, N.Y. area, Chicago area, etc.
The trend setters in any area set the tone for a lot of people.

Hmmm, don't forget, some of the later Tenyo stuff is actually invented by people in Europe, like Angelo Carbone and Lubor Fiedler. But I know what you mean.

People can also check out the Kaufman book 5 x 5 Magic From Japan. The SAwa Library Vol 1 by Kaufman etc. Newer magicians might not be aware of these books because they didn't come out last week.

DocFleming said:
Maybe it's a matter of exposure, as in what we are exposed to.

I am sure it is. Americans are very nationalistic and don't like buying from abroad anyway.Very localised. Richard Kaufman was trying to get American magicians to look at what was happening elsewhere with his Five by Five books. Then there was the Flicking Fingers book which showcased German magic. Pasteboards For Concertos by Oliver Erin was a recent good book of European card magic, consisted of material from a foreign language magazine.

Language is the problem, there are some excellent books out there NOT in the English language. It would be nice to read Spanish for Tamariz and Ascanio stuff...

Ronin said:
For starters, how many "big name" Asians are there in, say, pop music? Stand-up comedy? How many of Hollywood's leading men/women are Asian? The representation of Asians in general American popular culture is pretty low, so I think it just extends to magic.

There are MANY Asian big names in pop music, movies etc. But in Asia! Again you are referring to representation in general American popular culture. America is not the world.

Recently saw an article in a Brit paper that Andrew Lloyd Webber had brought across to England an Indian musician to work with him on a musical, this guy apparently sold MORE
albums world wide than many of the top music names we have heard of, but to English speaking people he is unknown. In similar fashion, the Indian movie industry, or Bollywood as it is called is also pretty massive. And their stars are VERY well known to Indians.

Many of the U.S. "big names" in magic are only "big names" to other magicians because of the English language magic magazines. And there is no doubt the U.S. does have some excellent big circulation magic magazines. For lay people how many magic names are known to the average household? Surely if they could name you Seigfried and Roy, Copperfield and Blaine you would be lucky.

I think I'd better quit, I'm starting to ramble

Paul Hallas
(Internationally famous in Huddersfield);)

Well said, Paul.


I don't think any of my friends who aren't magicians, even the ones who watch all the TV specials like Copperfield and Blaine, would recognize Michael Ammar. His encyclopedic work is unknown to them (which is why we all can perform it for people!) despite enormous contributions within the field.

Every now and then, someone I know will return from a trip to Japan and rip my face off with a totally new effect, or handling or something standard like close-up linking rings, and it's stuff that no one has seen before. So no doubt there are brilliant minds there as well, creating, inventing, perfecting...but without access, we wouldn't know.

Keep smiling!

:sun:

It seems to be a multi-facetted answer (or perhaps question?)

Does anyone know if magic is as big in Asia (or the individual Asian countries) as it is in the West (and its individual countries).

A "warning" - in order to answer that question I imagine we would have to pur ourselves in the position of a layman not only in Asia but also in the West. I mean, we guys in here probably think magic is a lot bigger than it actually is ("whaddya mean magic is small - I talk to magicians every day!")


I can only talk from a Swedish perspective and inform you that magic is definitely not a big thing here. We basically have one guy whose name people know (Joe Labero) and such a thing as restaurant magic is unheard of. Magic is pretty much what the clown does at the childrens parties and the Copperfield specials once every second year.

/Matias

I have to agree with Paul on this. There is a ton of Asian magicians! But there is also a slew of magicians from India, Turkey, Canada and even Russia.

Someone growing up in China (never seeing any western television), and really into magic, could easily ask; "Why aren't there more American magicians?"

Let's just say that magic is a universal language, and is very popular almost anywhere you may travel. Often our view and perceptions of a certain field or profession, may be influenced largely by our own geographical location, which may or may not have any resemblence to the reality of the situation at all.

With that said, I think the question is best left to philosophers to ponder over. After all, what does it matter, as long as SOMEONE, somewhere is keeping the art alive!