I always wondered whether any of the legends in magic had secret techniques or devices that they never, ever revealed to anybody. Names like Vernon, Malini, Blackstone, Cardini, Marlo, Jennings, Houdini, Scarne, etc... must of had effects or techniques that were so powerful, so impossible, so astonishing that not even other magicians would be able to fathom the secret behind it. And these secrets never appeared in any book or manuscript, but went to the grave with them.

I know, it sounds like the intro to the TV special "Secrets Revealed". But it kind of makes you wonder. Do these ultimate secrets really exist, or am I just childish to even wonder about this

It is fun to talk about though. So what do you guys and gals think?

Well, if they never revealed them to anyone, then there's no way anyone can know if they existed!

Yeah, they were all revealed in that book... uh, you know, the one with the funny cover... the one with all the pages. Yeah, I believe it was in that book. But I could be wrong.

Sure is a nice thought though, isn't it.

And hey, why not? Of course it does us no good, but it's fun to think about.

Sable

Sounds like a good premise for a X-Files episode.

Quinn

Well, Vernon was pretty much bled dry so I doubt he had any held back, and he ferreted out and passed on lots of other people's stuff.

But, I am sure there are plenty of unknowns that have come up with stuff that has been subsequently lost. As for the move shown me by Scarne on his deathbed, I will never reveal it, it is just too good.

Paul Hallas

John Scarne did a version of 'cutting to the Aces' with a borrowed deck, shuffled by the spectator, and, according to Bill Malone (as part of the patter for his own similar routine), took the method to his grave.

I remember reading the description of this effect, described by Scarne himself as performed for Arnold Rothstein. He claimed to be using estimation. The closest that I have come across to duplicating the effect is in the Martin Nash trilogy, using the Pop Stevens control (I think it is All Challenges Met from Sleight Unseen, but I am quoting from memory.). Whether Scarne actually performed the effect he described remains to be seen. The fact that Bill Malone refers to it does not necessarily imply that it is factual. I do not think Sam the Bellhop existed, for that matter. Neither did that South American gambler from Stars of Magic. But it makes for a great hook.

I remember Scarne's description. If he really did it that way, it was quite a feat. Supposedly he could memorize a deck with one riffle shuffle and then cut to any card. They said he demonstrated it for years. Legend or truth, who knows. I just know I can't do it.

Sable

I don't know if the Scarne story is really true, but Bill Malone did tell me that he used the Scarne story to keep the legend alive. Bill most likely came up with his own handling of what seems like an impossible effect, and did an excellent job at selling the effect. I actually had the nerve to ask him how he did it, knowing that he wouldn't tell me anyway. He did admit that the guy shuffling the deck was not a confederate, although he really looked like one. He told me I would be disappointed if he told me. After hearing that, I really don't want to know how its done now. The method is too strong and direct, so it deserves to be guarded by the elite. It is still the one card trick that I cannot figure out. I have come up with my own methods using just a regular deck with no gaffs or locator cards, but none of them look as clean as Malone's version. Maybe I shouldn't assume he used a regular deck? I am just hoping that he did. Maybe the answer is staring me right in the face and I can't see it. Who knows?

But anyway, enough about that, your making me wonder again.

re:
I remember Scarne's description. If he really did it that way, it was quite a feat. Supposedly he could memorize a deck with one riffle shuffle and then cut to any card. They said he demonstrated it for years.

He probably didn't(most likely ringed in an edge marked deck) People often believe a presentational angle is the method, (look at Derren Brown for a recent good example of this.)

If Scarne could really do that, it would be much more widely known and reported. The card man that had the most incredible memory was "Moe". There was an article on him in The Linking Ring last year (possibly August issue.)

Paul Hallas
http://www.PH-Marketing-magic.co.uk

There are, no doubt, a number of "killer" effects that will have to be re-discovered because the person who originated or popularlized the effect took the secret with him (whether to the grave or to Pittsburgh).
Kuda Bux did a virtually impossible "eyeless reading/driving/etc." routine, the secret of which he took with him.
Vernon, who had no idea how Bux did it, said it was the most perfect blindfold routine ever.
cheers,
Peter Marucci
showtimecol@aol.com

Here's the story as told by Scarne in one of his autobiographies:

LINK.

The majority of the methods that Dunninger used to accomplish his mentalism effects, e.g., "Brain Busters," etc., were never revealed, even by his closest associates. Obviously, what he did can be closely approximated (see Joe Atmore's excellent book, Dunninger's Brain Busters) but not exactly duplicated. About the only method of his we know for sure was how he did the linking rings.

I doubt if there are very many magic effects that were never revealed in some way or another. They just keep getting rehashed and presented in new ways. Some are forgotten. It's just like songwriting or plot lines for books; it's all been done before, they say, but yet each generation must put a new twist on things.
I have to admit , though, I've wondered about that too.
And hey, Sam the Bellhop was a heck of a guy! Here's another two-dollar tip for him . . .

There are supposedly notes by Vernon that will never be released and only a few people have seen. I forget who has them now, but from what Ive heard they really arent effects, but most likely thoughts you gain from years of experience. As far as Scarne's Aces, I have also heard it is rumored that he introduced stranger cards that had a different finish and therefore they were easy to locate.

If Malone used a regular deck, why didn't he spread the cards face up before beginning? At no point in his presentation he showed the cards. The only card other than the aces was selected (a queen, I think) and the selection was made using a cut. Everything could have been different if he, at the end of the presentation, spread all the cards remaining. Maybe he just didn't do it because it didn't make a difference. But what if he did it and you saw a spread of short AH, indifferent, short AC, indifferent, etc.

Ive just tried this on the missus using strippers and fried her!!

To broaden this discussion, I understand David Berglas's "any card at any number" is a secret he hasn't ever given away. I've never seen it but hear it is just impossible...!

Isn't every effect "revealed" once demonstrated? All that remains is to understand what we saw or experienced.

Whether you do the effect the "same" way with the same technique or not does not matter, it's the power of the effect that had value.

Yes, it would be nice to believe the reason I don't do an effect as well as another performer is do to some "secret" beyond my ability.

Just a thought.

The Last Doctor.

Certainly, not "all" the efforts of several fine magicians have seen print. Not even Marlo, much less Ricky Jay, Steve Freeman, Doug Henning, and on and on . . .