Patrick, the only problem with your definition, is that using that kind of logic David Blaine would be considered a magician.

That is exactly how I feel about it Bill. The reason why I cited the Ammar and Maven threads was becasue prior to hearing their oppinions, I always felt compelled to "answer the call" to perform an impromptu. (and I can anywhere anytime with no props at all). But now I know sometimes it's best to delay the performance, or simply not to do it at all.

Yet another lesson learned from "the pros" who visit this forum- no it is not a waste of time to do so- thanks.

Brotherhood of the Mumu unite! I realy need to get some pictures of my Arabic character online.

What actually stops them is when I tell them exactly what kind of clergyman I am.

When you can suspend disbelief
When you can entertain well enough to create smiles and invoke wonderment
When you understand that owning an effect means you do with your own style
When you think/create new effects or real twists on old effects
When you give back more than you get in performance
When you share, learn or have meaningful dialog about the art (this thread counts)
When you pick up the paycheck for doing all of the above

Those are all good.

I don't think the last one is a necessity, though. However, you have made an excellent point.

I'm an amature comparatively here, but those closest to me title me a magician.

Its not the pay check, nor the sheer number of tricks, moves, or routines that
make you a magician. Its a state of being and mind...and I believe we all know
when we are and become a magician. There are certain minimum qualifications to
even consider one's self a magician, and that is loosely define depending on the magic that you specialize in. Then its a matter of being respected as a magician. To some this is important and to some it is not. This even comes at certain levels...one from the layman's point of view and the other from magician.

There is a difference between the person who just does tricks verses the person who performs magic (i.e. the magician). I believe it is a combination of presentation and what I have written above...what the person percieves themselves to be.

In my particular position I believe I am just entering the rehlm
of becoming a magician, scraping the surface...but that is where I am at and who I am for the moment...an aspiring magician. I think it is a level of maturity of where you are with your magic that makes you a magician.

And when you become a magician there is still more to be acheived.

Isn't there lots of "You know you are a magician when...." lists in magic forums?

;)

Of all the places where it matters at all, spelling counts in magic.

Lest one conjure a hair instead of hare.
Or turn an amateur into an armature...

Solrak29,

I don't think you can trust your own judgement or that of others in this matter. As a child performer I called myself a magican, and others did too. In retrospect, I feel we were all wrong.

I do not know where the line between knowing a few tricks and being a magician lies. All I know is I've crossed it. I'm a magician, and yet I don't know when I became a magician. Maybe it was when I started learning on my own, or maybe it was when I was capable of teaching other aspiring magicians, or even when I took the Oath.

I became a magician when I recognized myself as a magician and recognized my love for the art. It's not about other people thinking I'm a magician. They could think of me as the devil, for all I care. I believe the quote was not "They reputo , proinde EGO sum" but rather-
"Cogito Ergo Sum."
-Rene Descartes

But hey, that's just my opinion.
-Evan

Some of the people I know who call themselves magicians are kidding themselves. And it hurts the art. But none of these has any love or understanding for the art. So I'm sure you don't fall into that category.

Fitzkee mentions the difference between doing the trick and selling the effect. I think that shift in focus is an important factor in gaining the title of magician.

When do we become magicians?
Perhaps when our focus goes from fooling ourselves to using magic for others.

That reminds me about a guy in the New to Magic forum. He posted about his excitement when a spectator thought he was good at sleight of hand, when in fact he had used a gimmicked prop. In his own mind he had fooled the spectator. He hadn't gotten to the point to realize the spectator didn't know he was fooled.

Ha! Ha! That was good.

The difference between doing magic and using magic still ranks up there really important. It never hurts to reiterate that one. Thanks for the chuckles.

To answer the question given in the title.

When I worked for the Renaissance festival, I was a magician from 9AM until dusk. Then I took a shower and became a sleeper.

The sleepers are the ones ya gotta watch out for!

Especially if they have eaten the chili.

You are a magician when don’t tell anyone how magic is done.