Hi,

I guess the important point is where you are an expert in WHAT.

In the gambling context, there can be different types of experts

1. Expert in gambling
2. Expert in gambling knowledge
3. Expert in gambling applied to magic
4. Expert in gambling behavior
5. Expert in gambling theories
6. Expert in gambling business
7. Expert in gambling marketing
8. Expert in gambling technique
9. Expert in online gambling

These are just to name a few.
So I would say that if you are recognized as an expert. Then they must believe or perceive that you are good in something. It can be gambling techniques or gambling knowledge. And the two are very different.

I guess putting it in the correct context will enable you to judge whether someone is an expert in gambling.

So if a magician is very knowledgeable in gambling but never really gambled, he can be an expert in gambling knowledge, but not an expert in gambling.

So personally, I would think it is the language or the definition that matters

Phil

What one is an expert at, is not relevant to the question; What makes an expert?

That's because I am crazy Dan. I see what you mean though, sort of.
So you must be able to do it or have done it, to teach it! I am not sure but it sounds fair enough to me. Experts in the main just give an expert opinion which can be helpful in learning something about the subject at hand but I think I would agree that it is better to learn how to do it from someone who can do it. Why? Well I am not sure but I think it is so. However a good idea can come from anyone and I will listen to anyone who has an idea, expert or not. Kids for example have good minds and fresh thoughts but they may not be expert or done much. What I mean is you should dismiss them just because they are young with little knowledge or exprerience.
But I did say above you can be an expert on it without being an expert at it. The psychiatrist is an expert on it but not at it.

I guess for me personally, and this is just for me I am speaking, the "expert" with no actualy physical ability has to be questioned at least a little bit.

The analogy of the sports commentator is seriously flawed. Here's why. Even the clumsiest of us has played all of the sports at least once. Most of the commentators nowadays have played the sports either professionally or semi-professionally. Not only that, some are specialists. For example, you have people who are experts at betting on sports. You have people who are experts at sports medicine, you have people who are experts at sports law.

Television stations have long since recognized the need for a jock or former jock to provide "color" and veracity to sports broadcasts, even if the jock is Bob Uker.

Hey, why you wanna bust on my homeboy?!??!! Uecker has a World Series ring! Uecker once got an intentional walk from Sandy Koufax!

Danny said:

I guess for me personally, and this is just for me I am speaking, the "expert" with no actualy physical ability has to be questioned at least a little bit
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Dear Danny:

That is exactly correct. I was going to include that in my last post, but it was too long already.

But, I agree with you. I think as stated above, that by defination it takes very little to qualify as an expert. That said, however, the extent that one relies upon that expertise is a matter of degree based upon many varriables, such as, actual practice, real life expierences, and perhaps recognition by other practicioners who by consensus recognize that one is skilled to a level greater than those who only know theory.

As is often the case in law, there is a battle of experts, with each side trying to show that the credentials of their expert is worthy of more belief and respect than the other side's expert.

Very often to prove this, the expert is asked about his education and other formal training, as well as, articles that he has written about the subject; organizations that he belongs to in that area; positions that he has been appointed to in that area; actual practice in the area; whether he has been asked to teach his skills to other professionals (which is usually a strong indication that the community of professionals in that area find that his skills are exceptional); and the like.

So, we have many who rightfully can be called "experts," but far fewer who can be deemed experts who have excelled in their field in comparrison to the universe of "experts."

So, as you say, many experts who do not practice can be "questioned" as to the extent of their knowledge. It is really a question of degree. But to the question, again, to be an expert is far easier, than to be an expert that others in the field actually respect and admire.

Of course, only my opinion on an interesting subject.

** By the way, how do you guys copy a post from another to include in your post. I just cut and pasted Danny's post, but it seems that you all are doing it another way by the looks of things. Is that the way you are doing it, or is there another way.

My Best, Bob.

Uker is mostly an expert on how to cash in when you have a big mouth but little talent.

Bob:

I was once called as an expert witness in a case against a large state operated mental health facility (translation: State Home for the Extremely Disoriented), in which a patient had slipped from the bonds that were holding him in his chair, wandered down the hall and fallen down an elevator shaft.

My expertise consisted of having performed the straitjacket escape for a couple of decades, plus membership in IBM and SAM. I was sent a set of the restraints that were used, as well as a photograph of the chair in question. A brief conversation with the manufacturer of the restraints revealed that these were not intended to keep someone from leaving a chair. They were intended to keep someone from falling out of bed.

I called the attorney who had sent me the material and explained that
1) They were the wrong restraint.
2) I could get out of them in less than 10 seconds.
3) A mental patient has nothing but time on his hands. Left alone, he could do the same thing in, say, 20 minutes, without expert knowledge.

The state settled out of court. I'm sure that if I had been called to testify, my credentials would have come into some question; however, considering that I have been studying magic since I was a child would have been a major consideration.

Still, I don't consider myself an "expert" on escapes.

BTW, to quote a previous post, just click on the quote button above that post, and it will appear in the reply window.

Dear Bill:

I think your last post about sports announcers was directed in part to what I originally wrote about announcers of sporting events.

If it is, I respectfully suggest that there is not a "serious flaw" in logic for many reasons. Firstly, the fact that the media wishes to have professional athletes announce games does not set a standard for what an expert is, or is not.

If that were the case, we would all be in sad shape, as the media is driven by dollars, not much more. Making money is the reason I would suspect that they desire to have professionals announce games these days. They have name recognition and an immediate group of fans. This translates into viewers, which translates into dollars. I am not saying they do not have an expertise, they do. The media realizes that they get a bigger bang for their buck by having them for both reasons, that being, expertise and a fan base. Again, this does not mean that those who have never played can not be experts.

Additionally, regardless of what the media does today, it does not necessarily mean that it was better than the way they did it years ago. Gosh knows that there are a plethora of posts in the Café that illustrate this point well. So, it may be flasher or more "colorful" as you put it to use a professional athlete, but it is meaningless as to whether a person who never played is or is not an expert by definition.

So in all, the fact that the media today decides to use professionals (and I am not sure that that is 100% correct as I am pretty sure there are announcers that have never played the sport) is a matter that encompases much more than a person's expertise.

The analogy you use about our own sports endeavors, respectfully may be flawed (seriously or otherwise). I am not saying that by throwing a baseball, makes you an expert. On the other hand, if you studied the varrious pitching methods employed by varrious pitchers, have been to seminars on the subject, have watched others coach pitchers, and have joined groups that discuss the subject matter, and have interviewed numerous pitchers and coaches on the subject, you may very well be an expert.

A sports announcer who has constant interaction with athletes, managers and the like can surely gain the knowledge as to qualify them as an expert. A sports announcer may not have the talent to perform the acts of a pitcher, but that does not mean that you could never be an expert on the subject matter.

One example of this jumps to mind is Howard Cosell, a wantabe actor who became a lawyer and eventually one of the most recognized announcers/experts in the fields of boxing and football. I do not think that he ever played a sport in his life, although I could be wrong. I have researched his bio and do not see any references to his playing sports.

Certaintly, I do not think that one could plausibly argue that Cosell was not an expert in the fields of boxing and football, despite the fact that he never put on a boxing glove, or played in a football game in his life.

So in short, there is a chasm of difference from a person who has merely thrown a ball, in comparrison to an announcer who may have never played, but has dedicated his life to the pursuit of knowledge of that particular subject.

BTW, loved the music story.

Regards, Bob.

A man is an expert in not how much he knows, but how much he makes others believe he knows.

I think a good test is: if you think the person is a real ******* but you still go to them for input, they're probably an expert.

Dear Bill:

That straigt jacket story is great. Thanks for the help with the cut and paste thing.

Regards, Bob

How makes you an expert?

Not me, them. I'm an *******, but no one asks me for input.

We've had some good definitions or viewpoints on what makes an expert.

Seems this will be one of those topics where we can't say EXPERTS AGREE THAT THE DEFINITION OF AN EXPERT IS.....

Still great to see the viewpoints.

Josh,
Well done.

Randy,
Wait until they pull out the thesaurus.

Randy I gotta tell ya I started this for a reason. To make us think. God I hate when guys say that but it is true.

To me, and only to me when your an "expert" who has never taken part in the activity you are an "expert" in you are no more than a story teller. A historian.

When you have no way to apply the nuances that occur from relating a story that happened to you it deteriorates into a debate of "what Vernon meant was this".

I for one am not of the belief that it is possible to really relate the ideas properly, without having done it on some level.

I know 100s of examples will flood in, and I have emptied my mail box to recieve the hate mail. But it is not just magicians who suffer from it. Here is my point though. At some point the stories get a little wrong, but then not corrected by experience.

Guess what happens?

Stories stay wrong.

Couldn't agree more Danny. Did you notice in my initial post I specifically stated I would NOT offer my definition but rather, my observations of those we've considered "experts". It's not my place, nor the place for me to point them out, but maybe a couple of others should of done the same?




Well I don't know...I've met people I know have accomplished specific and incredible tasks who couldn't expertly describe or bring you to a crystal clear understanding of what they were trying to convey. They are still incredible and yes, even experts.



I thought I had it bad while having to empty my PM box of all the requests for a date or offers to help me with certain areas of my magic. You'd be amazed at who's offered to lend a helping hand.



Now you are screaming at the choir. Can you take it an octave higher? Of course you can Just grab your left one and try. Try, try, try.

On a side note, I took my dog out for a walk today. He's a Boston Terrier Westminster Champion and a CHICK MAGNET. They adore him, they hug him, they squeeze him, they rub his little face between their breasts and say how adorable he is.

What can you say, he's an expert.

Dogs are experts at a lot of things, but my schnauzers still come to me when they want to be let out. After all, it's hard for them to reach the doorknob, and without opposable thumbs, it's hard for them to turn it.

It was "experts" who designed the flawed seal on the space shuttle.