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docguitarman Special user Thousand Oaks, California 891 Posts 
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I have too many projects going, but none the less, I was cleaning out spaces in our garage and ran across/ rediscovered this "Relic" wallet presentation box (which I knew I had to save a number of years ago, lol! I hadn't restarted my magic activity yet but it screamed "I can be made into a card change box" so I saved it!)
It is deep enough to hold a full deck of cards too (even when I gimmick the bottom to make it l*cking!) Hope I have the skills to cut a thin steel fl*p ! Wish me luck! I've already pulled off some of the felt lining which left the residue you can see of the double sided tape that secured it. Click here to view attached image. |
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docguitarman Special user Thousand Oaks, California 891 Posts
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Here is the box closed. Clearly it will have a top and bottom, so not reversible.
Click here to view attached image. |
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Cleverpaws Regular user Northern California 156 Posts
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Looking forward to seeing your progress.
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jimgerrish Inner circle East Orange, NJ 3209 Posts
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Alternative for a steel fl*p is one made of wood or stiff cardboard with thin (1/32" thick or smaller) neodymium disc magnets embedded in the four corners matching magnets embedded in the base. One magnet in the center is held on with a movable stronger magnet on top of the lid appearing to be a handle. You'll need a forstner drill bit to make embedding holes.
Jim Gerrish
magicnook@yahoo.com https://www.magicnook.com Home of The Wizards' Journals: https://magicnook.com/wizardsTOC.htm |
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docguitarman Special user Thousand Oaks, California 891 Posts
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Thanks for your input Jim. I greatly appreciate it!
The box bottom is only 1/16" thick, so I'm thinking I will need to add a false bottom of thin steel sheet material with the 4 neo's underneath. I'll cover the false bottom with black felt. The interior of the lid will not be felt lined rather just painted black. I don't have a drill press nor the skill to add a trigger handle in the top. I'll keep your inputs in mind for a future build as my skills improve. For now, I plan to use a loose steel fl*p painted black on one side to match the lid interior and with felt on the other side to match the bottom interior. I'll just use gravity to trigger it upon closing the box. I think I just need a box that can be examined after the trigger. In the mean time, while cogitating on the path ahead, I've been removing the remnants of the double sided tape with Goo-Gone, lol! That tape and residue has been rather stubborn espiscially in the corners. Repeated applications still dislodging little flecks of goo. As usual proper prep takes due diligence. |
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Cleverpaws Regular user Northern California 156 Posts
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If goo gone is working for you that’s great. . I’ve found Kleen strip to work better ( it is more hazardous) at getting stubborn adhesive off, although I like to start with the least toxic methods first.
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docguitarman Special user Thousand Oaks, California 891 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 7, 2018, Cleverpaws wrote: Fortunately the Goo-gone is adequate as its just the residue of double sided scotch tape that has been stuck on there for years that I needed to remove. The box is about clean now. Time to prime the interior and then paint flat black. |
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docguitarman Special user Thousand Oaks, California 891 Posts
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I am going to make two different fl*p's to see which works best. I picked up a small piece of 28 gauge sheet metal for the steel one and I am making another using jimgerrish's suggestion of stiff cardboard. In the latter case I'll use mag tape between the cardboard and felt covering. Hope this will give enough strength to the grip to allow it to be closely examined as the triggered f**p can probably slide a bit if the spec pushes around in the bottom because of the required tolerance. The advantage of this type is that it will only requires crafting level skills.
I believe the 28 gauge one will be grabbed pretty good making it difficult to slide about once triggered. Of course I need to be able to cut a decent f**p using my hand tin snips then deburr it so it won't be a dangerous item. Not having a full tool box I found via a search that fingernail files can be used to deburr the sheet metal -- I'll give that a go. For the false bottom (to conceal the neo's) I think the felt covered cardboard will work. |
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blamobox New user A shed in Somerset England 52 Posts
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Im looking forward to seeing how this turns out. Good luck.
WD40 works well for softening adhesive,just rub it off with a dry cloth. Al
Time Ticks Away Like a Peanut............
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docguitarman Special user Thousand Oaks, California 891 Posts
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Hi blamobox et al.
On progress. I made a first cut of the fl*p from the 28 gauge sheet metal using a Wiss hand tin snips. I got a decent fit but need to file and sand some more to deburr it. (I could probably use more practice cutting metal with tin snips. I'm thinking of trying a hack saw with a metal cutting blade.) In the mean time, I'm doing preliminary testing with fit. With just the nude fl*P the box emits a noticeable metallic clang when it falls -- as expected. The actual fl*p will fall on a felt lined bottom and make less noise. Nonetheless I've done some rough testing of the neo's grip when it has one layer of (cereal box) cardboard (the false bottom) and two layers of felt separating the steel plate from the neos (since if I line both sides of the fl*p with felt, to lessen noise, there will be one layer on top of bottom and one on bottom of fl*p) The grip is significantly less -- so much so that I suspect it won't "lock" strongly enough to be examined -- then there is the thickness of the vanished card also ! I'll keep testing with stronger neo's and look for thinner felt lining. I guess this is the empirical method for magic ! If I hit upon a good recipe/specification I'll post it when the box is complete. I'll continue with updates in the meantime. |
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Cleverpaws Regular user Northern California 156 Posts
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I think the tin snips will be your best bet. A hacksaw with metal blade is not going to be any easier. One thing I've found with cutting sheet metal is if you have less of an offcut, say 1/4" or so, you'll have better success following your cut line as the extra sheet metal won't get in your way as it curls. In other words cut the piece slightly oversize, then cut to final size. Its worth wasting a bit of material for accuracy.
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docguitarman Special user Thousand Oaks, California 891 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 8, 2018, Cleverpaws wrote: I'm working on the steel fl*p now that I cut out with the snips. One side is a little wide at one end. I need to remove perhaps a little less than 1/16" from that end. Will attempt to sand it off by hand. I'll try your advice Cleverpaws on another attempt tomorrow. Thanks for the tip. I had cut a 1" slot in the sheet metal near the cut line for my first attempt -- but that didn't help a lot. Should have cut the guy out oversized like you say. Your approach sounds excellent for keeping a bead on the cut line. Though I find it hard to see where the snips are going to cut (as opposed to skinny scissors !) Some more testing with the 1st attempt fl*p as actually to be used, I find that if the box is on a level table and I close it with thumb restraining the fl*p till the lid is close to closing the fl*p drops perfectly (even with the slightly too large side) most of the time with a lot less noise than I reported previously. Adding the felt to the fl*p should quiet that guy down. Encouraged! Wish me luck folks! |
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Cleverpaws Regular user Northern California 156 Posts
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Another way to cut thin metal that I just remembered is with a paper trimmer guillotine. When we covered our ceiling with decorative tin that’s what the tin supplier suggested. It was a 24” trimmer but I think a smaller one would work as well. Of course if you don’t have one they aren’t cheap but if you have one it’s worth trying. It’s a much easier way to get straight lines although not foolproof as the sheet can shift as the blade cuts and pulls.
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docguitarman Special user Thousand Oaks, California 891 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 8, 2018, Cleverpaws wrote: Thanks for this suggestion too! Don't have any trimmers except for Fiskars... not heavy duty. But something to file in the how to do files if I ever procure one. I did the second tin snip cut out using your suggestion. Did a couple of practice cuts on a phony cut lines to see where the snips cut. I masked the metal with masking tape drew the lines and got a near perfect fl*p! No crimps and a nice even line just requiring some minimal deburring! The tolerance on the width is a little tight for the drop into the bottom but I hope a bit of sanding with 200 grit paper will fix that. |
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docguitarman Special user Thousand Oaks, California 891 Posts
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Decided the self stick felt was too thick. Made a trip to the craft store, bought black suede art stock. Nice and thin. This is going to work! 6 small neos grip the fl*p quite well through the card board with the suede applied. Yet I'm going to add one more neo smack dab in the middle of the bottom for extra gripping -- 7 neo's total. Yay.
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docguitarman Special user Thousand Oaks, California 891 Posts
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Progress Photo report
This photo shows the nude sheet metal fl*p, the box with a couple of spacers inserted for the support of the false bottom. The neos are 1/16" thick and the craft wood spacers are a perfect 1/16" thick craft wood ( an uncut piece is shown lying across the open box). The lower left is the suede paper that will be applied to the false bottom. Click here to view attached image. |
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docguitarman Special user Thousand Oaks, California 891 Posts
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Before I paste suede onto the fl*p, any sage advice on what glue will work best?
it is card stock to steel. I am planning to use Loctite Go2 Glue which is specified to be used on both paper and steel. I think this will do the trick unless someone has had mixed results. I will rough the entire surface of the steel with 400 grit sandpaper before adhering the suede to both sides of the flap. Anyway just checking before I make a (reversible) mess of my fl*p ! TIA |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts
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Bad idea altogether. The bottom should be the same design as the real bottom. The spacers are not necessary, but they will be seen when the spectator places the card in the box, or even seen when you place a card in the box. The box is to big, and your adjustments are not helping.
I would suggest lining the whole interior, but the flap may get caught on the material. If you can by a duplicate box and use that make a matching flap, or thin down the box finished wood to glue that on your metal plate. Another suggestion is to sand off all the interior finish and make it all black as the flap metal piece. There is a reason why card boxes are close to the size of a playing card, and I think you found out why. Even if you go with your plan, it will look odd why those spacers are there. |
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docguitarman Special user Thousand Oaks, California 891 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 10, 2018, Bill Hegbli wrote: The spacer is just to provide a surface to glue the new bottom onto. It will be a suede lined false bottom. The lid interior will also be suede lined. Also, the fl*p is going to be suede on both sides. So un-triggered and triggered the top and bottom will present as suede. The only non suede surfaces will be the interior sides which I have painted flat black -- since not suede they should not catch the fl*p (famous last words??). I do have a concern along the lines you voice if the new bottom is not a snug fit to meet all four walls, in which case a very small gap or "seem" will be visible even though black underneath (I estimate the current false bottom tolerance/overcut to be only about 1/32" total -- so if I get it positioned symmetrically there will be up to about a 1/64" gap all around. But the fl*p will need to have a bit of tolerance and there will still be a very small gap between suede covered fl*p and the walls after it is triggered. I'm thinking the box will present itself the same before and after trigger -- that's a good thing, correct? I'll post a photo of the box with the bottom inserted unglued before I commit to gluing in the suede bottom. Your sage opinion solicited, though I know a small photo may not show much. This build may be a fail in the end but then it will be a learning experience. The box was a "freebie" -- a salvaged wallet container -- and I have spent less that $20 on the materials. So, it is well worth the attempt even if to be discarded as a flop. |
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docguitarman Special user Thousand Oaks, California 891 Posts
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Re-reading my posts perhaps my plans were poorly worded and did not accurately relay my vision. So here is the photo of the box as to what it will look like when completed with a card on top of the suede bottom.
Its all black inside, so as expected, a photo cannot show what I see with a close naked eye inspection -- zooming in on a saved image just still presents as all black. The paper tape is so I can pull the bottom out easily (its not glued in yet  )Click here to view attached image. |
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Posted: Jan 7, 2018 12:52 am 