Hello All:

I came across the YouTube video below and I want to try a technique on it, but the video is a bit unclear about it.

My question is about sanding the clear coat finish with 1000 grit paper. Has anyone tried this - does it really give a better finish than just leaving the clear coat alone?

I have a few wood items that I recently refinished. The clear coat is ready to go on, but I've got waterslide decals underneath, so I'm a litte afraid of damaging them by sanding after the clear coat dries. But the results on the video look so great, I really want to try it!

Any thoughts or tips will be much appreciated.

Ron

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qPJTTRWttQ&feature=related

Ron I have another "hobby" which is restoring cars.
The video did a pretty good job explaining the process but I would never use a roller for a finish on a car...
To answer your question polishing the clear coat will help to give a little more shine to the project. It is worth the effort.
In your case with the decals under the clear coat I would avoice the clear coat sanding, here is why.
The decal will sit a bit higher than the paint (like oranvg peal) and will actually take the brunt of the sanding, you will cut through the coat fairly fast and hit the decal.
I would just polish the clear coat on items with decals.

I do a lot of decal work, and the raised "step" from paint to decal can be an issue.

A few things I've learned from much experience...

I print my own decals, which require a clear coat before they may even be applied to the work piece. I make this clear coat thicker, the larger the decal, simply because the decal paper tends to stretch somewhat when sliding the paper backing away during application. If the coating is too thin, the image surface tends to crack if this stretching is too much. Thicker clear coats minimize the stretching.

However... the thicker the pre-application clear coat, the greater the raised "step" from paint to decal. Obviously, the less noticable this "step", the better the overall look.

It then becomes sometimes necessary to apply many clear coats. This eventually levels the area of most concern, but it sometimes requires sanding (usually with steel wool) to bring down the higher points. This allows the "valleys" to catch up. I will often apply several clear coats before any "between coat" sanding ever takes place. Just allow plenty of cure time.

How this relates to what you are doing... The thicker the clear coat, the less risk sanding will eat into the decal. Of course, use care and a good eye.

I noticed in the video that his third clear coat was dull. This usually means the paint hit the surface more as dust, than as a wet mist. I believe you already know how to fix that, without sanding after the final clear coat.

Thanks for hints, both of you! They're very helpful.

Typically, when I put on the clear coat finish, I do it in four steps, probably a total of 15 minutes apart, and my last one is the heaviest. I just watched the video again, and see that he's using an auto rubbing compound. I'm real happy with my finish as it is right now, but would like to see if I can make it even better. Is there much risk in using the rubbing compound? I'm pretty sure I've seen the exact Mcintyer brand he recommends on the video - I think Walmart carries it. It seems there's less of a risk to the decals if I use the clear coat rubbing compound.

Thanks again, guys.

P.S. to Michael...are you still happy with Valspar from Lowes? I've always used Krylon but really don't like the spray nozel (fan spray). It's hard to use it without getting the orange peel finish. I'm thinking of trying Valspar or Painters Touch.

There are so many unnecessary steps on that video,that I find it hard to pick anything of use from it.
As regards fnishing with 1000 grit wet and dry before applying the first,of several coats,of the lacquer is totally pointless.
As regards the hard sanding block for between coat sanding,that is also redundant until the final couple of coats.
I also found it bizarre that he didn't flat the final coat with the hard block with 1000 grit wet and dry before the cutting compound.Also the cutting compound(Burnishing cream)should be applied and worked in small circles,not straight lines.
I can't get my head around the fact he said the last coat would be dull.....Why?
You'll be using a 90% sheen lacquer,how can it possibly be dull,unless it's applied poorly?
For the final few coats,the lacquer should be thinned with a retarder thinner.this slows the drying time cosiderably and allows the finish more time to self level.
I also smiled at his drip test for the thickness of the material.To achieve the best results,a viscometer should be used to get the correct viscosity of the material,though you'll get the *feel* for the thickness automatically after a while.
Why would you wipe the surface down with spirits and then use a tack rag after?
Tack rags are full of wax and should be avoided at all costs!They're a waste of money and can compromise the finish.A damp lint free cloth is more then capable of achieving the same outcome.
As regards the steps around the edges of decals,you can just apply extra material around the design,to give it extra build.This can easily be cut back after,before the final coat.
All in all,this video shows you how to get an end product that is acceptable,though the steps it takes to achieve that,are far too overblown.
Cheers,Ray.

Hey, Michael,

I've seen a liquid that supposedly makes the decal really blend into the surface, like by eliminating that little step you were talking about. I believe it's available from MicroMark. Have you used this?

George,

Yes, I used this (Micro-Sol) a lot when I modeled railroads, and was using the factory types of decal. It was excellent for that.

However, it does not have the same effect on inkjet decals that have been clear-coated with lacquer. At least I have not had any luck with it. It just sits there until it evaporates.

Right. I suspected that might be the case. Thanks.

Ron,

I have not used Painter's Touch, but know that you have in the past. I have not been much of a fan of Rustoleum products. Most I've used seem to take way too long to dry.

I use Valspar spray (which I like just fine), the new Krylon (which definitely takes some getting used to), and what little of the old Krylon lacquer that I still have on hand.

I sometimes use combinations of the brands, but that requires some knowledge of what works on top of what, and what doesn't.

PM me if you have any specific questions.

~michael

Thanks for the responses. Up until a couple years ago when Krylon changed its formula from Lacquer to an enamel formula, getting the glass-like finish was pretty easy. I used the clear lacquer over the lacquer color coat and the whole process was relatively easy.

I bought some of the auto rubbing compound shown in the video, and am going to try it on an item this weekend. I've got multiple clear coats on it, and am happy with how it looks, but want to see if the rubbing compound helps. I will post my results when finished.

Ron

I did a little work years ago and picked up a a book by Science Magazine. It gave all the steps to a great Piano finish. I found it hard to grasp that getting a piano or mirror finish is only a process of the surface being 100% level.

Sanding or rubbing compound only levels the surface, the more level the surface, the higher the shine.

The reason for different types of abrasive material is to get closer to that level state. To just jump from one material and not use the intermittent material will only take longer to accomplish the process. Rubbing Compounds are for the final steps to get the smallest un-even level material from the surface.

That is why they use it on automobile finishes, to remove the micro dirt that get stuck to the surface while driving.

Ron, Bill is right. You need to sand in steps. I refinish guitars, so I am speaking from that prospective. Depending on how good you want it to be, you may be able to skip some steps. However, you do need to be cautious, especially if you have waterslide decals underneath the lacquer! Really watch the edges, corners, etc. too, and always use a sanding block!!! Fingers can leave furrows!

Also, I have only done this with nitrocellulose lacquer. I refinish to the exact specs (as close as I can get) that Leo Fender used in the 1960s for Fender Guitars.

Assuming that your project has been properly preped and painted, and enough coats of clear lacquer has been applied, (I also sand between coats with #400-#800) then you need to allow the project to thouroughly dry before you can begin the final sanding process. A minimum of 3 days, but longer for nitrocellulose lacquer is needed. The grades of paper required are #400, #600, #800, #1000, #1200, #1500 and #2000. To lessen the risk od sandthroughs you may want to begin with a finer grade (#800 or #1000) just to get a 'feel' for it before you start with the courser grades. Wetsanding can be risky for any screw holes, etc, so make sure you don't allow the water to get into non-painted areas and swell the wood!

Also, if you see heavy "orange peel" when you begin the final sanding it may pay to sand it down some and reshoot one or mor coats of clear before you go on. Also, if you accidentally sand through the clear.....stop! Go back and reshoot some coats of clear and start again.

Anyway, after the step-sanding is complete you can then use the polish. I prefer 3M Finesse It II. A deep shine should already be noticed, but the polish will enhance it even more, and any remaining fine scartches should be removed.

This is just a little info for the final phases of finishing/refinishing. I haven't covered anything about the rest of the process. I'm sure you know plenty about it as I have seen some of your work and you do a fabtastic job! However, when working with lacquer (nitrocellulose) there are a ton of things to watch out for. Wood prep is vital, and a sanding sealer is a must! Otherwise, given time, the lacquer will sink into the wood grain. Some woods also require a grain-filler also.

Polishing in this way is a lot of work, and runs some risk, but it will give you a beautiful, deep shine!!! As I said, this is the way I polish guitars. You may be able to skip some steps, according to how good you want it look.

Good luck Ron, and please let us know how it turns out!

Regan

Awesome responses, folks. Thanks for all the tips!

Regan is right on the money. After the final sanding ( and I go right up to 12,000 grit) you can use a soft sponge disc/pad found at the automotive body shop supplier, which attaches to a portable power drill. Apply the finer polishing compound paste to the sponge and gently/lightly, run the this over the sanded paint to bring out a beautiful final luster.
An excellent source for all types of sand paper and supplies is Klingspor;
http://www.sandingcatalog.com/

If the surface you are sanding is not flat or if you just want to knock off some crud that may have stuck to the finish, you can use 0000 steel wool to lightly smooth (buff) the surface. Follow this with automotive polishing compound (not rubbing compound - it is too agressive) then coat with a high quality automotive wax. I used this on furniture and jukebox restorations for years and it works great.

I must say I am jealous of all of those who can still spray lacquer. It has been outlawed here in California. I am having to learn a whole new way of doing things. The worst thing is the 2 part paint with hardener. You can't put it back in the can if you have any left over and the stuff is expensive!

I guess there is another good reason not to live in California...Lacquer paint.

Richard

Richard, don't get me started...still, it is home - at least for a few more years.

Dude, you live in Ohio...

Considering this was the birthplace of IBM, has produced more professional magicians and magic manufacturers and inventors than any other state, it's ok with me.

Richard

It also produced more dead rock stars than just about any other place, but if you're happy, then enjoy Ohio and your exposure to high levels of carcinogens in your spray paints. I'll raise a glass to the "Fly Over State" at The Castle for ya!

Incidentally, I believe the ban on nitro-cellulose lacquer only applies to the sale of the material within the state and to it's usage in the auto industry. Consumers are free to bathe in the stuff if they so desire, and can obtain the stuff (off the internet, perhaps?)...