I am looking for someone who could make me 11 daggers for a headchest illusion I am building. Any takers?

http://houseofenchantment.com/pages/Swor......ead.html

$235 for custom sizes.

Did you want REAL daggers or fake plastic looking ones? I've made sandwiching sword stacks for sword swallowers, blockhead swords/daggers, blockhead nails, non-gaffed eye hooks for lifting weights, etc. I use 316L stainless steel (never rusts, and doesn't leave that metallic taste in your throat). My swords are hand forged and run a minimum of $40 each (sorry, I don't have a $10,000 machine in my cellar).

I can vouch for Nips skills...
His custom stuff is just that- Custom! He can make exactly what you want.
Gwyd

It's fifty five thousand with all the software and I'm looking into a 5 axis machine that costs a quarter of a million.

Jee-hee-bus man!! That's a lot of dough. Do you pay for that all at once or take a second mortgage for it?

Years ago I made John Houdi two big Rambo type daggers. I made them like a card sword for an act he was doing. Im not making stuff any more so Im not soliciting but that might look pretty cool using something that looks like a big hunting or combat knife.

http://questx.com/tabmanmagic/houdi_knife_2.jpg

Before you have anything custom "pounded out", go to this website and see if you can find a stock size/design that works for you.

If you don't find what you need there, go with a CNC shop like Jay Leslie's. It'll be cheaper, and they'll be precisely what you want/need for the head chest illusion, since he's actually experienced in building and fitting swords for the illusion you're interested in.

In an amazing case of serendipity, I happened to catch an episode of the television show "How It's Made" tonight. The show featured a company that build reproductions and replicas of historic swords, and they showed a CNC mill shaping the blade of a large broadsword from a billet of steel. The narrator said: "Centuries ago this blade would have been hand-forged by a blacksmith, but now modern CNC equipment can produce the exact shape with greater consistency and perfect symmetry in about an hour."


TW

CNC and lathes use stock removal method. This generates an immense amount of waste. It also reduces the ability of the steel to retain its grain flow. When a smith forges a blade from stock, he works WITH the grain flow of the steels crystalline structure, making it stronger and more reliable. The smith also has a great knowledge of heat treatment and finshing techniques. This is MY experience with bladesmithing... I have been making knives for YEARS! Knives, swords, daggers, cutlasses, and other weapons are superb when forged compared to machine made and mine have sold at auction for hundreds of dollars.

Here's a few facts about blacksmiths:

NASA employs a blacksmith.
Blacksmiths invented the first surgical tools.
Smiths gave rise to modern denistry.
Smiths invented coinage and coin making.
If there were no smiths, there would be no freemasons.
Blacksmiths have been making tools and weapons since the bronze age.
Smiths actually can make consistently similar pieces just as accurately as any machine, they've been able to do it for centuries.
Smiths invented chain.
Forgings are higher quality and sought after in the aerospace and nautical industries over CNC cut parts since the '50s.
A hand forged knife can be worth up to 20 times more than that of a BudK CNC made run of the mill knife made in China.

My friend Jim Keiffer has been smithing for over 50 years now, some of his pieces look so original they've been mistaken for antiques. Last winter, one of Kieffer's roasting forks, after passing through other hands, fetched $31,000 at Sotheby's. I'm SURE any CNC cut piece cannot compete with that.

Posted: Mar 19, 2009 8:17am
BTW, the fact list wasn't composed from Wikipedia (which is horribly inaccurate as it lists "facts" by what people submit). My list is made by hands on research by the dozens of books I have on the subject and by the help of the 200+ years of combined experienced smiths at http://www.Anvilfire.com/gurusden who assist me. Go to http://www.anvilfire.com and click the link "Get started in Blacksmithing" link. The first sentence of the second paragraph reads "Blacksmithing is NOT at all pounding iron..." to think otherwise is simply ignorant of history.

It's highly doubtful that the "grain flow of the steels [sic] crystalline structure" will EVER be a matter of much concern in the daggers used for a headchest illusion. Exact length, width and thickness are probably much more important - as well as price, I suppose - and these characteristics are very easily controlled to better than one-thousandth of one inch by using CNC.

A skilled and experienced craftsman knows that choosing the correct tool for a given job is highly dependent on how the finished piece will be used. For the less-skilled, if all he has is a hammer then he'll tend to treat every job he encounters as if it were a nail. In my experience, however, not every job turns out to be a nail.

Steve, the originator of this thread, needs 11 daggers for a headchest illusion. That's the job being discussed here, and it seems pretty obvious that the results achieved through CNC machining will be less expensive and more precisely suited to the customer's purpose.

TW
(PS: the company I saw featured on "How It's Made" tests their finished reproduction swords by (among other things) chopping down onto the rim of a 55-gallon industrial steel drum. A close up of the results of that test revealed a deeply slashed steel rim and an undamaged sword edge; I'd have to think that's a pretty good result for a headchest dagger.)

I've seen that episode many times. It is fine and they are doing repro work, not original work. You also left out the part where they cryo-quenched the piece in liquid nitrogen, something I'm sure ALL blacksmiths had availablity to in the past thousand years or so (that is sarcasm... like my avatar).

Posted: Mar 19, 2009 1:06pm
BTW, I forge a nail from straight stock round 316L stainless steel. For you to make a nail with a lathe or CNC, you end up removing more than half the weight in steel. I can also forge 50 nails in a half an hour.

Yes, Steve did say he needed 11 daggers. Did he say he wanted them all identical? Did he say he might have enjoyed the appearance of hand made work? Most of my customers relish in the fact that my work doesn't look stamped out. In certain circumstances (like coin squished to cube) a forged piece is more passable than a perfectly straight lined cube. My cubes look like they WERE squished by hand, you could almost make out thumbprints. It's all about the customer... I don't have a CNC, so my customers are MORE than happy to pay a little more for something with heart.

In order to be able to help out, some more info is needed. What style of dagger, sizes etc... Also What material you would like to have them made from and the price range you are looking to pay. The price range is affected by the materials used. Do you want hardwood handles? If you could fill in the gaps, some of us may be able to help out.
Ray

Yes, I'm sure you make wonderful nails. I build many, many different items - including entire CNC machines and other robotic devices. Much of what I do far exceeds what is possible to make in a blacksmith's shop, such as machining custom gears, cams or other refined mechanical parts. In fact, I've never actually built a nail at all; I buy mine at Home Depot.

Directly on point, the swords/daggers used in most stage props (such as Steve's head chest) have no need for most of the characteristics that a "real" sword might require. But looking solely at the dollar amounts quoted above, it looks like he could get Jay Leslie's set of swords for a fixed price of under $250, or for an estimated price of at least $440 from you. Seems like the choice should be pretty clear for a set of PROP swords.

TW

A sword is a sword the only thing that makes it a "prop" is if it's used as a prop.

I could say that my custom machined knuckledusters are props, but still it's usable as a tool. (well for those other jobs)

Hand forged swords and knives are so much cooler because they are different, and you can tell the difference. (For instance, play with the Cold Steel Khukris and then play with the hand forged ones from Himalayan Imports. It's very noticeable)

Besides that, all the cheapo 440c Bud K swords still look like silly props anyways.

Or to skewer olives in a martini.

TW

I suppose I should clarify...

I want something made of metal..Aluminum perhaps, and a a wood handle. Something like in the osborne books. I just don't have the talent or tools needed to construct them. Not looking to spend a car payment either. LOL

That depends on the car. If you have a Ford Focus with 2.9% apr then go with Jay Leslie, buying a Cadillac with 0% financing and you're looking at my work. Either way, Steve, you are not going to find 11 daggers custom made for less than 3 digits.

And my estimate of $40 per sword is a serious undersale for me, as I have already explained that my knives and swords have sold for hundreds. Here at the Café', I give deep discounts on my work for a couple reasons. Firstly, this is my hobby. I have ZERO overhead, so I can charge whatever I feel. Secondly, I know what it's like to be a performer trying to scrape by, YOU obviously don't. So I feel it is necessary to help someone out by giving a low price. My nails sell for $20 ea for example... the weight of the stainless steel and finish put to the piece nets me $60 a piece at my piercing shops as my clientele enjoy wearing the nails in their ears. Jewelry or prop, same item, different use, different price.

Please don't insult my car as it is a Cadillac.(Paid for with shows). What do you drive? (I also have a van and an 18 foot box truck.) Please do not put down my services by belittling me or my products, it makes you look bad. I have never said anything negative about you however if people look in the Cruel Jokes thread, you are in there a lot which leads me to believe that you think along those lines. Flaming is for kindergartners. please state your case as an adult. Look at the way you modified your picture to mock TW. There is a difference between poking fun and being recalcitrant.

Blacksmithing is an honorable craft. There are times when I bend, heat and forge a few things myself (I am a certified welder) however it's not the answer to every manufacturing process. Incidentally the argument that you can't get organic shapes on a CNC machine is null and void. In the main program that I use, I can bend, twist, depress or whatever.... in any way I choose. The argument that CNC people waste material is also off base. We recycle. Your only argument is in what features and benefits your products have. How you make them does not matter. Ego does not matter. The more you say how great you are, the less other people like you. The product and how the customer likes the product is what matters. Good luck to you and your shop in the future.

I will be going on the road till Wednesday to do some shows so if you have anything else negative, to write about my shop, please wait till then.

Jay, I wasn't now and never had been insulting you, your shop nor your products. A was making a mathematical equation because Steve said "Not looking to spend a car payment either. LOL"... now a car payment on a Ford Focus runs about $240, a Cadillac at minimum $440 per month. This has no bearing on quality of anything, it was a monetary equation. I never said a bad thing about you Jay, EVER and you can check that. I know a few pranks, so do we all.... the Cruel Jokes is all about that and I offered a few that I've heard, NOT done. I also never said I was great at anything (except my nipples), and I agree a good product is a good product REGARDLESS of how it's made.

Thank you
TGN

[quote]On 2009-03-20 16:28, Thomas Wayne wrote:

What a great line.

-=tabman


Posted: Mar 20, 2009 5:48pm
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Too bad about PMZZ. It had a lot of good people as members. I had to get lost and lay low for awhile and lick my wounds. Sorry I wasn't there to help keep it going.