Hey folks,
I am looking into the history of the stencil methods of the old school manufacturers.
Particularly what material/substrate did they use to create the stencil itself?
It must hold up to lacquer paints and have as little bleed as possible.
It must be relatively easy to cut as well.

My expertise is in hand cutting masking films, silk screening and vinyl cutting. I never really liked stencil work due to the limitations, over sprayed edges etc. however I am attempting a restoration that originally had stencil work applied.
Thanks for any help!
Chance

Exposed photographic or old x-ray negatives.

Richard

Wouldn't film negatives essentially be acetate?

I wish my stenciling techniques were better. A couple of keys points that seem to be important are:

1) Avoid warpage of the film while cutting. Too much pressure and too dull a blade will ruin the stencil even before you can use it. Because of the amount of pressure it does take to cut even thin acetate, I have often resorted to using paper, as there is less chance of warpage during cutting. These however, are very temporary stencils, so you may be putting in a lot of work for a single use. Obviously, this is not good if you want to do multiple items, but in the case of a restoration that wouldn't matter. The single use issue is why I tend to shy away from frisket films, even though they produce immaculate edges. It is simply not cost effective to cut a new stencil for every item.

2) Make sure the edges seal. By my experience, the smaller the detail and the more "peninsulas", or narrow "bridges" on the stencil, the harder this is to do. This is especially true if there is a slight bit of warpage to those tiny peninsulas. There is less decal adhesive in those areas, and it seems the solvents in the paint can cause those minimal seals to break free and lift due to the force of the warpage. This is usually worse with acetate than with paper. It doesn't take much lifting to get overspray in such cases. Typically, the drier the spray, the less chance of this occurring.

Decal adhesive is tricky stuff. Too little, and the edges lift; too much and it may affect the paint that it is in contact with.

Over time, the adhesive must be reapplied, which often means a less even coating, and more chance for gaps for paint to seep under.

Cleaning stencils is a whole other issue. Cleaning stencils with very tiny detail is a difficult task on the best day. Several coats of paint produces a different kind of force from the shrinkage, and warpage occurs. It's often easier to make a new stencil, but again, not always cost effective.

I consider guys like Warren Hamilton to be geniuses. His stencil work was flawless. It's easy to understand why some stencil guys learned to accept overspray. Ha-ha! It's even easier to appreciate the crisp detail that decals afford.

~michael

Yes, film is acetate but I suspect that Grant got it very cheap as throw aways before silver got so valuable.

Richard

Thanks for the help guys!
I am avoiding masking film/frisket due to the fact that I have to make it look BAD!!
Isn't that funny? I actually am attempting to reduce my quality so it looks true to it's original state of a bad stenciling job...ugh.
Believe me, after countless Hot Rod and Funny Car custom paint jobs, I could nail the graphic as a flawless perfect edged painted image but then it would look TOO GOOD...(ugh again)
Thanks again,
Chance

I had to refinish part of an old Grant prop once. I used enamel instead of lacquer, but I masked the area with thin cardstock and got the perfect "underspray".

So... you custom paint Hot Rods? Hmmm... most guys use those little fake jewels.

Actually, I think doing a reduced quality paint job is a pretty cool undertaking. No ugh. It probably takes more skill to get a precise match than doing a pristene job. I'd be interested in what you are working on.

Amos' idea of using card stock will probably get you what you need. Many, many years ago, I used file folders to make generic Grant/Abbott-like stencils for some stuff I made for myself. The quality was less than perfect, but to me it looked enough like the stuff I saw on magic shop shelves that I felt ok with it.

~michael

The few old stencils I have seen were made with a thin cardboard stock, like a file folder. they were cut, then sealed with shellac.
super77 spray adhesive on the stencil will hold it to the substrate and let the stencil peel off easily. make sure your other coats are thoroughly dry before continuing to the next layer. peel off the stencil before the paint dries.
be careful not to spray to heavy a coat, the lacquer thinner will dissolve the spray glue.
let us know how it turns out.
bob

Michael and Bob,
Thanks for the additional info.
I am in the process of restoring an old Aturo prop. I will begin the stenciling tomorrow. I will try to take progression shots for the curious.
Chance

We use both...thin acetate and stencil board...stencil board, when cut correctly with sharp knife, will last a long time. We use 3m Repositionable adhesive and the stuff works wonders. It prevents 95% of over and underspray especially when you use a spray gun that has some force behind it. The acetate is hard to use in our opinion and we prefer the stencil board.

As a side note, Arturo (Glenn Babbs) used to paint in his garage. He had windows on each side that he used for cross ventilation. Being he lived in Michigan, most of the painting was done in the summer.

Richard

A lot of magic companies use copper stencils cut with a laser, they last for years.

Oh for the good old days of fuzzy-edged stenciled decorations. That and fringe, tassels and smoke and fire. Wow, weren't those to Golden Years of magic? Yes Manila folders or stock was used , remember the lettering stencils on that card stock? Remember laying down the stencil even without frisket and using a toothbrush and piece of wire screen to "splatter" the flecks of paint until we got the desired effect or density? Then there was always the stipple brush. We have lost so much due to the computer and removable from the "hand made" look, feel , & COST.

Dr. Solar

I have a hundred or more stencils that Jim Swoger used for his, Grants and others, projects.

All are cardboard.

I have another hundred silk screens for His, Grants and others as well

I also have a ton of original artwork, lot's from Mishell. Those are primarily on white cardboard with an onion skin cover.

All this and 30.000 letters & advertising, written from magic dealer to dealers that are "very" interesting.

This actually needs to be put on another thread.

Yeah, so are these for sale or something? It would be nice to see some of the photos just for curiosity sake. I used to have my own silkscreen shop, made all the screens for the earliest Atari video games in the 70's. Remember when the economy was clipping along?

Dr.

Not sure what to do with them but if you're in the mood you can swing by and give me your opinion. Next time you go to the Castle, I'n 42 miles south.

Sounds good. As ex graphic artist sound like you have a museum trove. Thanks for the invite.

Dr.