|
|
|
|||
| Go to page 1~2 [Next] | ||||||||||
doublelift Veteran user 342 Posts 
|
I built a losander style table a couple of years ago but never finished it. With the extra time in the winter months I need to get back on it. I don't know of any method but a zombie type. I have a idea for a quick hook up that may be original. Since I have not seen every type on the market I can't be sure. I may be reinventing a gimmick that's already in use! Any advice "floating around" on this would be very helpful. If there is something you don't want posted in the open please PM me. Thanks!
|
|||||||||
|
Illusionist11 Loyal user 220 Posts
|
Well, I'm sure the first advice someone might give you is get rid of that table you are building now...Losander's are the best and can't be beat. I know that's not what you want to hear and you are probably not going to do it, but its the right thing, Losander didn't put his blood, sweat, and tears into building this table for someone to attempt at something that can't be reached.
|
|||||||||
magic-dabra Regular user Knoxville, TN 153 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2008-12-29 00:04, Illusionist11 wrote: You are wrong on that opinon. If there is one thing I have learned in this long life it is ... there is ALWAYS someone better. You build that table the way you want to. It may be the one that becomes the one that knocks Losander down a notch in the floating table business. |
|||||||||
|
doublelift Veteran user 342 Posts
|
Thanks for that Magic -Dabra!
I guess we all have to use the same cups for cups and ball and no new routines either. There is always room for improvement. I have met Losander and admire his work greatly but he didn't invent it either. His gimmick if I recall correctly is from Tommy Wonder. This is how the art is advanced. He improved it from Tommy Wonder with things he learned from Finn John. He also applied this to the Zombie Ball. I am trying to see if I can do it another way that may be new. Since I have been building model airplanes from Balsa for 30 years I found the new use for the material interesting as a project and even discussed it with Losander at a convention several years ago. He even offered advice as to finishing the wood. |
|||||||||
John Martin Inner circle 1017 Posts
|
Quote:
This is how the art is advanced. NOOOOOOOOOO...this is how the art does not advance. Because when poeple COPY props and routines rather than buy them from the creator/originators, they, the creators stop sharing. I am very sure that Losander and Tommy Wonder knew each other and had a working relationship with their respective floating gimmicks. I doudt Losanser could pick you out of a line-up of one. So rather then make excusses, why not pony up and buy the original and do the right thing. John |
|||||||||
|
magic-dabra Regular user Knoxville, TN 153 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2008-12-29 19:55, John1964 wrote: I really don't understand this post. He states that he thinks this may be a DIFFERENT method. He states that he even discussed it with Losander at a convention. What is the problem here??? If he can come up with a different and better way, there is no "sharing" by other magicians that would stop. He simple betters them. That is competition and that is what causes items to get better. |
|||||||||
|
IDOTRIX Elite user Darien,il 467 Posts
|
Let this guy build what ever he wants, just as longer as he doesn't COPY what Losander has. The floating table was around long before Losander and it will get better. This is a place to give help and not to judge.
|
|||||||||
|
John Martin Inner circle 1017 Posts
|
As usual, what's the point?
John |
|||||||||
|
doublelift Veteran user 342 Posts
|
Thanks Idotrix!
The point is I WAS TRYING NOT to copy a existing design even if I wasn't aware of it! However some people didn't understand the written word. Their line of thought is equal to Danny Dew created the Paul Fox Cup and there should never be another cup because any odd shaped metal cup is a cheap copy of a work of art by a artist. Ok I love my Copper Fox cups but I have others too.... People tried differnt shapes saddles etc. all in search of what ever they were looking to improve. Nothing can be improved with a closed mind. |
|||||||||
|
lejon Special user 721 Posts
|
Ask bill gates what he thinks about it....
|
|||||||||
zimsalabim Special user Orlando Floirda USA 520 Posts
|
Wow just build the table I don't see that you are infringing on anyone here. Good luck with it!.
Joe Zimmer
"The Second Greatest Magician in the World" Who is the Greatest? Everybody else! Borrowed with respect from the late Great Eddie Fechter Owner of the Forks Hotel Zimsalabim Orlando Florida |
|||||||||
|
biuls New user argentina 2 Posts
|
So I'm new here, Hi all!
I don't think that build your OWN, was a bad idea. 3 or 4 years ago I was looking some tables and touch a very light one. the dealer said that's the floating one... when I come home, I decided to make one and the same problem appeards to me, gimmick! beacause i'dont see how it and how its works.. you can think,imagine, work and improve in doing the thing with time I realise that I don't build a lossander one, but mines works nice for my.. because I think on it.. I don't know, its my opinion. Biuls. |
|||||||||
|
ssucahyo Inner circle 1954 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2008-12-29 17:05, magic-dabra wrote: I agreed with MagicAdabra |
|||||||||
|
donrodrigo Special user U.S.A. and Europe 635 Posts
|
Hi friends,
forgive me but I would like to second Magic-Dabra, in adding this bit of business. A good friend of mine in Europe has an electronic company,components from Japan, Malasia, Singapore ect. I saw this first hand,certain second name brands, and some wich I never heard of. For example tv,stereos and alike that,would blow away the competition of very popular brand names as we know them. They are much cheaper in fact even half the price,but again worth ten times the original name. |
|||||||||
|
Magic Researcher Elite user 406 Posts
|
There is nothing wrong with designing and building YOUR own style and method for a floating table. If the table design is your artwork and the method is yours, you have not copied anything but the idea of a floating table. Various floating tables have beem around for 100 years or so. The idea of using a zombie type of device is an original use for the gimmick and could be considered by some to be "infringement". There are other ways still to be explored for doing a floating table. Shoot for originality.
MR
Repeating a falsehood often and loudly does not make it true.
|
|||||||||
Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2604 Posts
|
I think what we all need to remember is he originally stated "I built a Losander style floating table" . Now what does this mean?
He saw the effect and tried to copy it not knowing the working? He saw the table in a catalog and tried to copy the "look" of the table never having seen the effect? There have been "light weight" tables for years from Thayer and many others. What Losander did was take a very clever gimmick and apply it to the ultra light table creating a very original effect that is his alone. Now Doublelift says he's thinking of a "Zombie" type gimmick which we assume he understands the exact "Losander/Wonder" workings on, but that might or not be the case.... but if he is considering this type of gimmick, he would be ripping off Losander. If he is just taking the effect and changing the method but the visual of the effect would seem similar to an average audience without improving the magical effect... then he's still ripping off Losander, just poorly. If he wants to create a totally new methodology that is original, and creates a different enough effect to look different to the average audience from the Losander effect, then he's creating something new! From the posts above, it seems that he's looking for a good method to do the same Losander effect without purchasing either the rights to the effect or the table itself, and that doesn't seem right.
Ray Pierce
|
|||||||||
Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts
|
So I see a magician do a floating table and think "I'd like to do that!" And then I look in a catalog and think "But I can never afford that!" So I set out to make my own. That's wrong??!!?
I'm not going to put my table on the market or even sell the one I've built. Mine may look generally like the one I saw in performance or in an advertisement, having the same general shape and / or graphics - but anyone who knows the available props will immediately recognize this as a "not-one-of-those" props. I cn think of a couple of ways to make a table dance and float. Most of them may be very impractical or clumsy; as I discard them, I may be left with only the one or two methods that really do work - and that's why the professionals use them! As far as Bill Gates - his Windows is a re-work and take-off of other programs; Apple had a mouse-driven GUI long before Microsoft put one out. But Windows is definitely not like the other programs. Apparently Mr. Gates is not against taking ideas and working with them to see what you get - he is, though, very much against making duplicates of his product even to give away. It's been this way for the history of magic and props. What about all these thread devices? How many are really new? How many are really just a variation on a common theme? Unless I find a Lossander table at Goodwill, I will probably never buy one. So if I want to make my own out of PVC and cardboard, am I wrong? If I want to make one out of wood with shape, color and graphics like I've seen in an advertisement, am I wrong? Am I simply not allowed to perform any effect unless I can afford to buy the first-item prop from the original maker or only authorized successor? Ed |
|||||||||
|
Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2604 Posts
|
To be honest, this isn't a workshop question but an ethics one so it's really in the wrong category.
but here we go... Quote:
On 2009-06-04 11:15, Ed_Millis wrote: To me, yes. Now, I know we all have different ethics and standards and it isn't right to superimpose one's morality on others. There are legal standards for this in society called laws and unwritten ones as well that guide us in doing what is right. Let me make it easier. If Jim Steinmeyer creates an illusion like an Oragami box. There is value in that creation exclusive of the prop itself. If you see it in performance, look it up with a builder and say "But I can never afford that!" and you set out to make your own Oragami box... is that wrong? Yes it is. It's done constantly. People rip off others on what amounts to a daily basis. Quote:
Just like you can see "knock-off" Origamis online everywhere. People immediately recognize them as "not one of the authorized" props but does that help the inventor to know that there are cheap knock offs watering down his creative intent? Quote:
I cn think of a couple of ways to make a table dance and float. Most of them may be very impractical or clumsy; as I discard them, I may be left with only the one or two methods that really do work - and that's why the professionals use them! The best methods are ALWAYS obvious after they're discovered. I've worked out "improvements" on effects after first purchasing the effect from the owner or creator. I feel this then gives me the right to develop additions or improvements for my own use. Would it be right if I wanted to sell those without the original creators permission? Not to me, and probably not with the creator of the original effect. I would make some arrangement with him that as suitable based on the amount of the original effect retained and probably credit them in the advertising... "inspired by" etc. Quote:
Unless I find a Lossander table at Goodwill, I will probably never buy one. So if I want to make my own out of PVC and cardboard, am I wrong? If I want to make one out of wood with shape, color and graphics like I've seen in an advertisement, am I wrong? Am I simply not allowed to perform any effect unless I can afford to buy the first-item prop from the original maker or only authorized successor? If you want to do what is right... then yes, you are wrong... and no, you shouldn't make something for use without the permission of the creator or inventor. I really, really want a Maseratti, but I can't afford it. Some magic is purposely priced out of the range of some of us to keep it exclusive and not have everyone doing it. That's the option of the person who created it.
Ray Pierce
|
|||||||||
|
Decibel33 Loyal user 229 Posts
|
I don't even know how the floating table works, and I'm on the edge of my seat with this thread!
|
|||||||||
magiquemaker New user 69 Posts
|
There were people doing floating tables with zomb** gimmicks before Losander in europe, this has been well documented and discussed here before.
I wonder if Losander is paying them a commision for every table he sells, or Tommy Wonder's widow for that matter. This issue has been discussed here many times before, I don't think there is a clear answer. I disagree completely with someone sticking a zomb** under something then claiming the exclusive rights to make or sell that, its just ludicrous. Yes he makes one of the nicer tables, but he has no right whatsoever to claim exclusive rights to make or sell this. It uses a zomb**, anyone who bought a zomb** has the right to stick anything on the end of it, or under it, including a table, or anything else for that matter. John |
|||||||||
Posted: Dec 29, 2008 04:31 am 