Upon countless attempts to make a decent rollershade, I haven't really arrived to my desired outcome. With that said, I'm not looking for advice to make a rollershade from scratch, I need a professionally made set-up- instead. Does anyone know of a good source to purchase pre-made rollershade hardware? I'm more interested in finding a metal-tube/spring over the traditional wooden shaft/ clock spring. If I could find a distributor that can make these in custom lengths, that would be a bonus!

I know the Café- community has a weird way of pulling amazing results out of nowhere, so please allow me to thank you in advance!!!

-Bryan

George Kimery makes them for his Kub-Zag illusions, so he might be able to help you. Also, check with Dan Wolfe at Smoky Mountain Magic. He is also building the Kub-Zags now.

Bryan,

Customizing the length of a rollershade isn't a difficult process.

Head for the store and shake a few rollershades. You can easily tell the sound of the metal ones from the cardboard. The metal ones are probably the more expensive, so start with those.

When you get it home, unroll it, strip the shade off the roller and slide the two telescoping sections apart. Both sections can be cut to length (carefully so as not to distort them!) with a hacksaw. Just make certain you're not cutting the one that contains the spring assembly too short...there is a limit.

After filing off the burrs from the cutting process, slide the sections back together. Voila! Custom length rollershade.

We could certainly make up a few for you, but it'll be faster and cheaper to do them yourself. <wink>

Dan Wolfe, aka. "The Amazing EARL"

Most housewares/hardware stores, and fabric stores that carry them have the ones you can "make" yourself. Actually, one selects the fabric or covering, and trims the shade roller to size. They tend to have instructions in the package. I have made about a dozen over a few years for household windows, and offices. Not difficult as long as you have the space to lay it out so the attachment it level and even. You might have to adjust the spring tension a bit, it takes pliers, and a twist per most of the instructions.
Good luck.
K

I have a related query...

I have used and customized MANY rollershades over the years, building things from Flash Appearances to Zig-Zags. Anyone who understands the guts of these things knows the limitations on length (Dan obviously does, too). I need very small shade-type rollers for a couple ideas I have in mind. A similar example of size would be the old Thayer (now Owen) trick where the die in a frame cabinet appears to rise from the cabinet into a hat. If you understand the size of that trick, you have a pretty good idea of the size rollers that I will be needing for my projects.

Has anyone every taken apart a roller from those little shades that fit in car windows? Can they be made as short as 5 or 6 inches? Are there other options out there?

Thanks!

~michael

Bryan and Michael;
I've played with these items for 40+ years and threw together a web page which might help both of you. You may see it at:
http://www.jamesriser.com/Magic/RollerShade/Mechanism.html

Enjoy.
Jim

Thanks Jim! It looks like I may have to custom build what I need when I get to my projects. These springs shown are about 7" long, and I'd need the entire roller mechanism to be a couple inches less than that. They won't have to be super fast, so spring strength may be too great by the time I'd cut one of these car shades down.

One thing I seem to be missing mentally.. why is the roller tube split lengthwise? Wouldn't it still function unsplit, as long as the plug at the business end locks to the tube? Is the split for attachment of the shade fabric?

~michael

Michael;
The split is for inserting the fabrc. You could glue the material on the drum too - especially on tiny roller shades like those to resemble dice.
Jim

As I suspected. Just making sure. Thanks.

I found what seems to be a decent source for piano wire. I used to be able to buy this stuff by the reel locally from a piano rebuilder when I was making feather bouquets, but they've long since gone. Now, all that's available here is 3 foot straight sections; not nearly long enough for one of these springs.

Would it be better to use flat wire? I have not found a retail source for that.

~michael

Michael;
No to the flat wire. Check MSC for music wire in coils. That's how I buy it; but have not bought any for some time. We had a local hardware store that recently went out of business. I bought all of the coils that they had - a lifetime supply. The coils come in small flat boxes.

I also have an old spool of military music wire that I bought probably 30 years ago. It is .020" in diameter and would work well on your projects. You might want to get some of this size.
Jim

I guess I think of rubber band airplanes, and pull string toys, for small stuff. Why not a rubberband spring inside the item acting as a windlass? I do not want to say look to the ITR, because I think things that kids play with are tougher and stand up better, (and have been around longer)like the pull string windlass on a talking doll or toy, or the windup one gets with a thread spool, dowl and rubber band racer. A means to store the energy until released...
k

Once again, the Café lends a "resourceful- helping hand"... Thanks guys!!!

-Bryan

Thanks again Jim.

Thanks to you also, Kay. That is indeed an interesting idea, although I think I would fear breakage at an inopportune moment.

~michael

Michael-
To lessen concerns about breakage, consider flat "high strength" elastic for short travel lengths. Hard to work with but can be done.

Kay brings up an important consideration with the suggestion of using rubber band power. Yes, as Dave (who can make quality items) mentioned above, it can be done. The consideration that I mention is the philosophy of the builder. Most builders of quality apparatus for magicians attempt to make things as maintainance free as possible. Steel springs allow for years of trouble free use. Rubber here in hot dry Arizona rapidly dry rots and could fall apart in as short a time as a few weeks. So each builder must decide on the types of apparatus to be built and which route to go when doing the actual design/construction. In many cases it will be found to be advantageous to invest the initial time and expense in making a permanent gimmick rather than one which will need to be replaced down the road - possibly many times. The time taken on replacing the temporary solution will easily out weigh the time needed to have made the original gimmick a more permanent one. It is up to the builder and buyer as to which solution will be best in each item made/bought. In some cases, the rubber band power may turn out to be the best solution; but I think not for Michael's intended uses. Bryan never stated his purposes for wanting the roller shades - so no comment there.
Jim

As Jim said, rubber bands, being natural rubber, are going to cause replacement problems. (And if your luck is like mine, you'd *only* discover it needed changed during performance.)

If I were going the rubber band route for a mini roller shade, I'd think along the lines of a man made rubber; neoprene, urethane, possibly silicone...ANYTHING but latex. Any of the three materials will last longer and be much less sensitive to temperature, humidity and time.

Instead of a "band," imagine a cast rubber bar or rod -- holes being cast through the ends rather than cutting to avoid tearing when stress is applied. I actually made something similar from silicone this afternoon for another project.

Dan

There's a lot more know how on this issue with all of you than through me, so I'm content listening.

As I mentioned, I have only worked with full-size window shade rollers.

My intended projects are a ways down the road, with other things demanding earlier priority, but this research and brainstorming is good. It will save time when the bridge needs to be crossed. Thanks to all!

(Oh, and I didn't mean to hijack your thread, Bryan... )

~michael

Jim, I absolutely agree with you on material choices. My understanding is Michael was looking for something to adapt himself. In no way would I recommend anything based on natural rubber for the market. Occasionally space constraints and technical aptitude prevent utilizin gthe ideal materials in the home based shop setting!

Dave, Michael, Kay, and Bryan;
I actually spoke too quickly above about using rubber bands. I was at the time only referring to the roller shade application and really should have expanded the topic a little bit. If we had been discussing this in person, I would have expanded upon the topic. The funny thing is that rubber is the perfect choice for a very few select projects. It has worked well on a hank pull for many years - and Squash. I used to have an old collectible Abbott's visible sawing through arm (no box) and one part of the gimmick was moved by a couple heavy elastic bands. This was the perfect choice for that item. Rubber bands are also the perfect choice for use on several types of holdouts (easy to adjust and replace). Where would the card sword be without elastic? And just this morning I finished adding an optional backup tension source on a custom item (for situations where the spring might break or become fatigued) and a rubber band was the best choice. It all depends upon the project at hand. Even though they dry rot and fall apart relatively quickly, rubber bands do have their place. Forgive me for not expanding upon the topic earlier. I'm snowed under with orders and answered too quickly - so I could get back to work.

Obviously none of these projects utilized a roller shade mechanism which is what Michael and Bryan were asking about. A spring still seems best for this task.
Jim

I saw something at WalMart today and was curious if anyone had any experience with something similar...
The product were elastic bands made of silicone for use tying up meats and such as you would truss a turkey or a roast. The intended application had to do with its ability to handle temperatures up to 600 degrees. That point aside, does anyone know how the elastic properties might compare to natural rubber? Would they be less apt to break? Is the elasticity sufficient to be used as a reliable motive power? Just curious...

~michael