I need some help with a couple of effects I am now putting together. I am making a square circle and a breakapart vanish. The breakapart is done and ready for paint, the square circle is on hold waiting for the artist drawing for the front. My question is about the type and technique of paint and painting. Should I use roll on paint or spray? And how many coats should I put on. Or maybe I should ask, how many coats are too many? I am not independently wealthy but I am willing to put the money out to make these look as professional as possible. Any help here would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks

Steven

Hi, Steven,

Glad to hear your SC is ready to paint! Now, you're probably going to get about sixteen different opinions on this.

Just to narrow things down, it would help if you tell us a bit more about the SC: I'm guessing the box is wood, but what's the tube? What's the style? Is it a solid color or are there decorative elements or appliques? How large is it? And so on.

One thing to remember here is that the type of finish you use on a prop that's going to get a lot of handling and be seen from a few feet away could very well be totally different from the finish used on a display piece that's going to sit on a shelf for years and be seen right up close.

Agreed, we need more info.

Also, regardless of the material the prop's manufactured from, you will probably want to put a coat of primer on first, especially if you're using a light color on the outside. You'll use fewer coats on the end product that way.

As for roll-on or spray, I can ask a similiar question right back- latex, acrylic, or enamel? It's time to do your research. Find a website on painting for theatre and stage, or, better yet, check out a local college or theatre company. They can give you the best advice and techniques for painting props. If you find a hungry student, you might even convince them to paint it for you for cheap.

Lets see, the actual size of the box is 16"x8" with the front being 19" due to a Chinese design. I don't have the tubes yet but will be making them out of a heavy plastic material I found at a local hardware store. I am painting the box red,it seems like most Chinese effects were painted in red. I am lining the inside with black felt. I know I got some advice from you George early on with this project. I did not make up a cardboard mockup because of the design I am having done with the front. The front of the box will have a 3" extention on the top to make it look like a Chinese pagoda. It is really going to be nice. It will be outlined in black and gold pin stripe. I am trying to find some books or something on theater prop building to learn the painting technique. The box is wood, I used 1/4" birch that cut really nicely. I have heard that I should use a lacquer on it and then paint over the lacquer. This will give it a really smooth finished look to it. The birch is very smooth as they are now so not sure if I should use the lacquer or not. I have also had someone tell me to use a really good plastic contact paper on it and then paint. What do any of you think about this idea. The paint is something I am trying to decide on. Latex,acrylic,or enamel. I want the best finish on it I can get. Anymore help will be taken to heart guys.

Thanks

Steven

Since you're using plastic, you definitely need primer; otherwise the paint will not stick. Lightly sandpaper the plastic to rough up the surface first, then apply the primer. I'd recommend a hard-wearing enamel spray after that, followed up by a gloss varnish. Keep the spray, so if it chips, you can retouch it easily.

Of course, that's just my opinion, so if someone else has better advice, listen to them

I don't believe you want to put paint over lacquer.

Enamel spray paints can give you a very nice finish, but you need to follow a few simple tips.

The wood must be primed first, or you can expect to spend a lot of time watching the wood soak up paint. Spray primers work very nicely, but I will often use Varnish Sanding Sealer. You said 1/4" Birch, but there are many grades of this. Finnish Birch Ply is wonderful stuff. But there are lesser grades to be found at places like Lowes and Home Depot. This kind of wood wil look great until you start painting it. Then a multitude of sins will show up. It can be made to look good, though.

Spray primer is best for surfaces that are very smooth without much open grain, otherwise you'll do better with a thicker prime coat, such as a brush-on sanding sealer.

Varnish sanding sealer goes on very easily with a brush and dries quickly. Try to avoid runs, drips and sags. Sanding sealer is a softer finish that doesn't dry as hard as top coats. Big drips will act more like gum than paint. Just pay attention as you go. Even if you wind up with a few drips, you can sand them off later. It just adds to your time and effort.

Ideally, you will be giving your prop several coats of sanding sealer. Allow each coat to dry and sand away the roughness between coats. This will ultimately fill in the tiny grain pores that can make a paint job look bad. If you have larger pores, they should have been filled in with wood filler first. If using a wood filler, be sure that you don't get a non-drying putty. You want it to dry to a sandable finish.

Ok, that was slightly off-track, but assuming you now have a nice sealed surface to paint, you will find that different brands give different results. Krylon makes a real nice fast dry (12 minutes or less) enamel. Rustoleum is also very good. I have even had a fair amount of good luck with generic brands, like Wal Mart's store brand, but these paints tend to be thinner and you'll be applying more coats in the long run.

Whatever brand you choose, you will do best to stick to the same brand if you plan to do layers of color. Some paints dry faster than others and if you mix incompatible brands, you'll wind up with wrinkles, paint lifting, and a few other potential problems. Testors is one brand that consistently gives me problems, especially with color layers or multiple coats.

The first coat you apply should be a very, very light coat, called a tack coat. It will look almost ridiculously light. This will help subsequent coats adhere to the primer.

The can directions should give you a window of opportunity for re-coating. Some allow you to re-coat anytime, while others will specify before a certain time length, or after a certain time length. Pay attention to these for best results.

Subsequent coats should still be light, but heavier than the tack coat. Paint in a sweeping pattern, striving to maintain an equal distance from the prop through the entire pass. Try not to either start or stop the spray directly on the prop, but have the can spraying as the spray begins to pass over the prop and don't stop until the spray has passed off the edge of the prop.

Overlap each next pass slightly over the previous pass. If you can, make subsequent coats at different angles to the previous. In other words, allow the coats to cross-hatch each other. This helps insure a more even distribution of paint.

DO NOT RUSH!!!

Different factors will speed or retard the drying of paint. Humidity, and temperature are your two biggest concerns.

Dry-to-touch is not the same thing as cured paint. Curing takes substantially longer, sometimes weeks. Attempting to layer colors, and masking areas with tape will become very frustrating if you don't wait for the paint to cure. At any rate, if you do need to mask previously painted areas, use the best painters' tape you can buy, and get the stuff specifically for delicate surfaces. It's tack level is not much beyond a Post-it note. Too sticky and the tape will rip your beautiful first coat up by the roots. That has caused me to scream at the garage walls more than once.

It is usually good to give the prop a clear top coat. This helps protect the prop from picking up or transferring color to another prop that it may rub against. There are many clear coats that are compatible with enamels, and you should strive to find one by the same manufacturer as the paint you are using.

I have also had good success using clear lacquer as a top coat. Be sure the color paint has cured very well, and spray the lacquer in light coats. Too heavy and the solvents will begin to dissolve the paint underneath. Fortunately, lacquer dries quickly.

I'm sure others here will offer their own good advice, but these are methods that work well for me. I hope you have success with your painting!

Let us know how it goes.

~michael

Michael, that was wonderful... a crash course on spray finishing! Right on the button!

It brought back memories of my first few projects many years ago, especially the part about taking your time and spraying thin coats. I remember trying to "get it done" and having the paint run like crazy, either from too much paint or from spraying too close to the surface. I also remember not taking my time with the edges, in your case the top and bottom of the box and the insides of the cutout. These will absorb far more paint than the flat surfaces and will require filling and sanding too. Hopefully you haven't lined the inside yet.

If you want this thing to look Chinese, go to your local library, get a few books on Chinese art and furniture (particularly lacquerware), and study the finish. You don't need to use lacquer to get a "lacquer-like" finish -- especially on a stage prop that's going to receive constant handling -- but the finish on real Chinese pieces is gorgeous. These books might also give you some ideas on decorating the SC.

Looking forward to some photos!!!!!

PS I always like to soften the edges on boxes like this. It looks a little more finished than perfectly square edges and helps reduce wear and tear on the corners. All you need to do is run fine sandpaper right on the edge a few times until it loses the "bite." Try it on a scrap first.

Michael,
That was fantastic. Thanks for all of the helpful information.

George,
That's a nice tip on the corners. That makes a lot of sense.

Thanks for the help,
Dave

George,

Very good advice on the corners and edges. I have found that those are the places that wear thin the fastest. If you sand between coats, it's too easy to take the sharp corners down too far. Subtle detail, but well worth the effort. The piece actually feels better to handle, too.

On the other hand (and I am always good for showing that one!)... If you are aiming for a vintage look, such as I often do, worn edges and corners are quite typical weathering techniques.

Are we giving them too much??

~michael

PS - Chance Wolf has a nice tip for dealing with those paint-drinking edges. I won't tip his tip, so you guys will either have to do a LOT of reading to find it, or wait until the search feature is back up.

Aside from surface prep and prime.
"Use several light coats" is not just a way to sell more paint.

Wow guys, these are some great tips. I knew if I came here and asked I would get lots of help. Michael your post was fabulous. I tried to rush on some other props I made in the past and it really showed. I plan on taking my time and give it plenty of cure time. I really want this to look like a pro made it. I am going to start the painting this weekend and will post some pics as the process moves along. Again thanks for all of your help here.

Thankyou

Steven

Good luck, Steven!

~michael