About Carney version. I remember that the bill wasn´t signed. It used torn corner.

Does anyone one use Carl Cloutier's method. I'm not sure if it is his method but this is where I learned it. This is the presentation he used on the World's Greatest Magic. Signed bill to kiwi. This is the method I use. I also feel that the bill must be signed to get the strongest impact.
Rich B.

Sergeant, neither of the Bills in Lemon that I use ends up with a soggy bill.

The Cellini method has a little “move” that allows you to cause the bill to be a little moist, but not soggy. In the Gismer method the bills are pristine and dry, even coming from the center of the lemon. Now that’s magic!

Thank You, Harry,
I shall look into it. This is what I like about the Café, sharing and exploring.

Sergeant

The reason that a lemon was used, originally, was so that the spectator would let you have the nasty bill as a tip! LOL!

I don't understand why many magicians are using fruit when other, just as convincing, containers could be used, that don't get the bill soggy. Tradition can be a double-edged sword, sometimes. Few remember why effects were done the original way, unfortunately.

Depends on the variety of lemon. We have a little lemon tree in the backyard that gives bar lemons. (small ones) and a big lemon tree in the front yard that has large thick skinned lemons, the size of small oranges with a space that is big enough to keep the bills dry if you are careful. The big ones lose the lemon shape somtimes.

So its like Alan says,it depends on the container.

It seems to me that we are a little worked up about signatures here!

I perform the simple card to lemon (a la Mark Wilson's cyclopedia - torn corner), and I get terrific response. The fact that the spectator can cut open the lemon (if prepared carefully) and being able to have the lemon and knife etc in sight at all times is great.

I also dont think that there needs to be a reason for having a lemon.
Why do we get someone to pick a card? Why do we have little balls that appear and disappear? I say that it is because it is entertaining! So is making a bill/card appear in a lemon. Who needs more reason than that?!

This is great, lots of food for thought. Bill in Lemon is certainly a memorable routine for a lay audience.
I recently bought the $65. version and it is really good, very direct. For years I used the old Sam Berland "Bill Tiki" in the tavern circuit. It had plenty of room for developing a showmanship piece.
Torn corner or signature (?), I think the thing they will remember is the performer. Isn't that what magic is.
Many, many years ago a dear friend, Phil Thomas told me that it's not the trick that is magic...it is you.

I have noticed a couple of post recommending other "containers" such as Cup-o-oodles. While these may be good tricks in and of themselves, I think there is a reason that a lemon is so popular. That reason is that, in the spectator's mind, there is no possible way to get that bill into the lemon. That piece of fruit has never, throughout the entire course of its existance, been open. The same is not true for a cup of ramen noodles, or a block of ice, or anything else man made. The fact that any bill is in a lemon is amazing. The fact that it is their signed bill is a miracle.

I am not down playing these other effects. But I do not think that they fall into the same category in the mind of the spectators.

It's also true that people are just as convinced when it goes into a sealed package. My point is that the lemon was originally used for another reason. Why not use a dinner roll, a film canister, a nest of Russian dolls, a pack of gum or a wrapped candy bar?

The possibilities are limited only by your imagination. Who knows? You may come-up with something original!

Hi, Does anyone know which tape Cloutier his bill in kiwi on? Is there a specific reason why he uses a kiwi and not a lemon?

I would also like to know if it is practical in the restaurant /walk around setting and what do you think of this version over all. Thank You, any help would be greatly appreciated.

I use the Mesika version, but I have a problem with this...

When I attach the gimmick inside my coat with the safety pin, after moving a lot it falls.

Once I was doing a show in which I started with card manipulation and the gimmick has fallen while I was producing cards.

Any solution for this?

Thanks!

Fitzkee's "magic by misdirection" has a good impossible location effect where an item (could be a signed bill) goes into a nest of boxes and eventually there's a brown paper bag inside with ... a ball of yarn inside it.

The spectator unrolls the yarn and inside is... the item.

The spectator handles everything including the ball of yarn.

The magician never touches the ball of yarn.

I think that one is also good.

Frank

Yes, it is good indeed.

Regards

I saw John Carney's version. The nice thing about his version (not signed) is that the spectator can cut the lemon. There are problems with Carney's routine, but the premise was great. So I took and made it into a chop cup routine and it kills and it has made me a bunch (and I mean a bunch) of money on the streets where I perform it regularly. But my routine has multiple loads ala cups and balls and has a lot of funny bits in it. I don't think the bill needs to be signed for it to be very, very powerful

koz

I don't know which tape has it, but I've seen him perform it in a lecture and he stated that he uses a kiwi because it's not as messy as a lemon. But personally, I think a lemon is better for two reasons. First, the contrast between the bill and the yellow lemon is better. Second, for some reason, a lemon seems more comical than a kiwi and lends itself to more humorous patter in my opinion. So at the bottom line, lemons = funny, kiwis = not funny. Also pickles = funny, but I've never seen a bill in pickle (although you should see Allen Hayden's vanishing pickle in birdcage...your head would explode with laughter).

I agree that one of the main reasons to use a lemon is because it's inherently funny. Having a bill signed is much better than a torn corner to my mind. If however, as in the Carney version (which was designed to be appear impromptu), the serial number is also included with the torn corner, then this is pretty impressive. Just as doing a card to wallet with a torn corner instead of signing it. It's good, but signing is better because it's immediately recognized and therefore more effective. The spectator doesn't have to conform to "magician's logic" about how the piece and the whole card/bill must be the same since the pieces match.

Last week I saw an old tape of Gali Gali doing the trick on Ed Sullivan. He did a double signed bill to orange. He placed the bill in an envelope, had the spectator seal it and then burn it. Then he cut open the orange and it was inside. Extremely direct using one bill and one orange and very effective.

Although I haven't seen Ammar's version where he restores the lemon, I have concerns that this is a double climax and therefore confusing to layman making it less memorable. I'd be curious to see it. I recall Dai Vernon saying, "If a person can describe the effect to one of their friends three months later, it's a good trick." And I completely agree. i.e. He had a signed bill appear inside a lemon. When you start to add things like restoring the lemon afterwards, you run the risk of gilding the lily (or lemon in this case).

Don't misunderstand me, I'm all for adding one's own touches and advancing the art, but it's a fine line to walk at times. Al Baker said that more tricks are ruined by improvements than anything else. Perhaps that ceative energy might be put to better use in developing a new effect rather than improving classics.

I always thought that the bill should be signed in the bill to lemon trick. You would think that, logically, it would be stronger.

But I watched tedb do his bill to lemon trick at the taste of Hartford. And I must tell you that the audience was completely impressed and fooled by the torn corner with serial number. I heard more than a couple people make comments like, "how did he get that bill in the lemon?!?"

I've always believed the proof is in the pudding and the torn corner (with serial number) seemed to fry them very nicely!

It certainly made me look at the trick differently.

Larry Jennings has a great routine in his little booklet called "Neo Classics". He uses a card though, I guess that doesn't qualify does it? Perhaps there is a way to substitute the card for the bill, but there is moment in th routine that is quite visual, it's where you throw the cards in the air and they turn into an orange.

Scott Guinn has a really nice version in one of his books. It's not signed, but the he gives convincing reasons why a serial # can be very convincing.

In his version the bill is burned with no cover at all!