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rickmagic1 Inner circle MIddle Tennessee area 1548 Posts 
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Ok, not in general, but more specifically, double back cards. I've seen some routines that used double backed cards in very novel ways, but the cards were shown to be what they were from the start of the trick. I won't mention any magicians that I've seen do this; suffice it to say, there are some "big names" in magic who've done routines like this.
I'm just wondering what others here think about this. Rick
Richard Green
The Modern Conjurer Coming soon: Victorian Secrets: An Evening With The Spirits! |
BryanDreyfus Loyal user 293 Posts
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I have had to come to terms over this myself because there are a few effects that benefit from the exposure.
I feel that if it doesn't reveal a trick of different uses other that just being 'unusual' I would feel differently. Bryan
Oh sure, I can spell "Antidisestablishmentarianism", but I can't type t-h-e.
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2544 Posts
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Any type of exposure is unforgivable in my view.
Not only does it 'smack in the face' the first rule of magic, but one man's exposure is potentially taking the food off another man's table. Finally, as with most exposures I've seen over the years (not only with cards), it's done, more often than not, to try and get a cheap laugh. Sorry, but if you are a good enough entertainer, then you really shouldn't sink to such depths.
Barry Allen
Over 15 years have now passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
taklyt New user Paris, France 42 Posts
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I think exposure can sometimes add to your effects. Of course it IS shooting your own foot most of the times, but I happened to force an odd card out of a one way forcing deck, and then reveal it at the end. After letting my spectator playing with it, I took it back and switched back to a normal deck, repeating the effect to someone else. You should have seen the face of the first spectator, smiling for he thought he knew the secret. When he saw the finale with the regular deck, he almost went nuts!!
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rickmagic1 Inner circle MIddle Tennessee area 1548 Posts
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Could presentation cover this issue? I have the utmost respect for the magicians that I've seen do this type routine, and it was a killer routine...just wondering if it's worth it...
Richard Green
The Modern Conjurer Coming soon: Victorian Secrets: An Evening With The Spirits! |
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james_thecanadian_magician Veteran user 344 Posts
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Hey Rick,
http://www.youtube.com/user/LiamMontier?......kx91UxdE In this video called "Blush" I found on youtube, presentation is used to cover the issue. Is this kind of what you were talking about relating to gaffs? I do like this routine it's visual. |
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rickmagic1 Inner circle MIddle Tennessee area 1548 Posts
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That's kind of what I'm talking about. Actually, the routine I saw used D/B cards only, and they were shown from the beginning. There was no explanation as to how they got that way. Reality is, I love the routine and could quickly justify it with something such as this: "I bought a deck of Bicycle playing cards, and I think that there were some misprints among the advertising cards where they were printed with backs on both sides. I came up with the following idea..." Something along those lines.
What got me thinking this way was hearing some previous comments about Doc's "Anniversary Waltz", which is one of the best pieces of card magic out there. The comments I heard were not from working pros, but from "others" complaining about "revealing the double faced card". I don't see it as a 'reveal' at all, but rather the result of a magical presentation. Guess that's where I'm coming from.
Richard Green
The Modern Conjurer Coming soon: Victorian Secrets: An Evening With The Spirits! |
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greymagick New user Spain 53 Posts
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I don't particularly like the idea. I mean, I understand the rationale for it and the routine, and would easily think of several other contexts where showing a DB/DF/name-your-gimmick would be, erm, suitable (for comic effect, even). The fact is I don't feel comfortable with doing it myself; I cannot help thinking that the spectators who never had a notion that such gimmicks exist are given the idea that they do. I know they might know that before hand intelectually (provided they are absolute laymen), but it is different to actually be able to see them in action because they understand it emotionally, along with the potential of such a gimmick, and in the future they might think of them as "a possible solution", even if they are wrong. The bottom line is, I feel such move may conceivably lessen the impact of some future magic they witness.
This only explains why I would not be very comfortable doing this, also because I would not know how to effectively conceal or avoid the unwanted implications of the reveal in a routine. I will of course not judge what others choose to do; I'm sure any proficient enough magician is perfectly able to get away with murder and do such things with no "collateral damage" at all.
- Grey
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rickmagic1 Inner circle MIddle Tennessee area 1548 Posts
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Thanks for all of the responses on this. I still haven't decided whether or not I'll do the routine I'm interested in, but I do have a lot to think about now.
Thanks! Rick
Richard Green
The Modern Conjurer Coming soon: Victorian Secrets: An Evening With The Spirits! |
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Will Tsai Loyal user 209 Posts
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Exposing a gimmick in front of audience, most of the time (with the right performance) audience just think it's a gag and laugh it off. It doesn't stay in memory and certainly don't ring the bell when you are really using it. However, some performers choose to expose sleight, that in my opinion, is not the smartest thing to do. For some reason, sleight make sense to the audience, and THEY REMEMBER!
Just my 2c. |
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rickmagic1 Inner circle MIddle Tennessee area 1548 Posts
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WillieT, interesting view, and one I'd not thought of before.
Rick
Richard Green
The Modern Conjurer Coming soon: Victorian Secrets: An Evening With The Spirits! |
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dragonash Veteran user the sticks 380 Posts
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Personally, revealing a DF cards does not bother me. Most spectators have imagined them. Rather than reveal, "Anniversary Waltz" CREATES such a thing.
I worry more about revealing a DB. Normally spectators have never envisioned it. I hate to give away its existence. |
j100taylor Inner circle 1198 Posts
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I've always been uncomfortable with "Anniversary Waltz" for revealing the DF. However if it's good enough for Doc Eason it's good enough for me...
Lakewood, Ohio
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Ken Rabalais New user Houston, Texas 41 Posts
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I choose not to reveal a gaff. I have not seen an effect that would be worth exposure of a clever secret. Especially a gaff that I like to use.
I once showed a friend a expanded ] and for a while he wondered if I was in some way using it for tricks that did not need it. It was a distraction. I moved to dollar coins and made sure he knows I have no gaff for that. I will not let him know when I get one either. He has no idea a DB card exists, and he will not hear it from me. This is different from sucker tricks because a sucker trick doesn't really expose a secret. |
Mike Maturen Inner circle Michigan's Beautiful Sunrise Side 2726 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-05-03 08:28, greymagick wrote: I personally think we give our audiences FAR too much credit for "thinking". This is not a slam again them...just reality. MOST people do not come to see a performance with the idea of "figuring it out"...they go to be ENTERTAINED. If our entertainment ability sucks, they WILL move to figuring it out. Yes, they is the odd one that sits and tries to figure us out...but they generally are so far off-base that it really doesn't matter. Besides...I think we spend too much time thinking like magicians and too little time thinking like laymen. Perhaps if we walked in their shoes, our entertainment quotient would rise.
Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment The Magic and Mayhem of Mike Maturen 989-335-1661 mikematuren@gmail.com AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life" member: International Magician's Society |
ancientmagic Regular user Tucson AZ 112 Posts
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Just my opinion but exposing a gaff or gimmick only creates a new challenge when you get to the next effect or part of a routine. You have provided a sub-text for the audience: "o.k. he or she maybe using another one of those "funny" things." Maybe just taking a look at the effect/routine from another angle could provide a way to accomplish the same result without the reveal.
--Best John
"In victory you deserve champagne…in defeat you need it!" –Napoleon Bonaparte
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SIX Inner circle New York City 1772 Posts
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I do not think any way that it is a big deal. If you change the context in which you use the gimmick they would never suspect it.
Take the Thumb T** for example, millions know it, but if you show them a bill switch they would never suspect it. But once you pull out the red silk, it registers to them as fake finger. |
martydoesmagic Inner circle Essex, UK 1714 Posts
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I agree with SIX. Most people would never be able to work out how gaffs could help you perform a particular trick. However, you should be careful when using gaffs openly, and be mindful of the context. For example, performing an ACR using a D****e B****r, then following this with a routine that openly displayed the gaff would be foolish.
Most All-Backs routines are improved if you let your audience handle the gaffs. I don't think we should consider this kind of use of a gaff as exposure, as you're not giving any secrets away per say. We should also remember that giving a small, inconsequential secret away can make an audience member less confrontational because you're sharing some of your secret knowledge with them. Marty |
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martydoesmagic Inner circle Essex, UK 1714 Posts
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Quote:
I've always been uncomfortable with "Anniversary Waltz" for revealing the DF. However if it's good enough for Doc Eason it's good enough for me... This is a good example of what I meant when I said we should be mindful of the context of the exposure. In this case, the D***e F***r is a product of a magical event, and doesn't in anyway point to the method being used. Therefore, a little exposure (if you insist on calling it this) makes the effect more powerful. Marty |
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mrgoat Regular user England 115 Posts
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Quote:
On 2011-05-02 05:17, Merc Man wrote: Yes. Good point. I know several workers who have had to retire now because of the exposure of a double backed card. Oh the humanity. When will it end! |
Posted: May 2, 2011 02:35 am 