Vinny, Just Wanted To Say Thanks For The Top Gun Demo. I'm Looking Forward To Learning It! Do You Also Have A Demo For The Hop?

-Rick Clark

Rick thank you for your support the demo for the Hop is on the way
All I can say one can never have enough ways to perform a effect. the classic pass , spread pass, cherry control, cascade corntol are all beautiful moves,, my purpose was to show the hop and top gun controls. and teach how powerful the moves are
they are not better than the onse mentioned just different.
vinny

I can say that I understand where this question is coming from. Nothing looks more suspicious than making a strange or seemingly useless motion after returning a card to the deck or shuffling or cutting the deck after returning a card and passing off the motion as "losing the card in the deck". Smart people see right through this and while they don't have a clue how you are controling the deck or a particular card... they darn well know that you are somehow in control.

That being said... nothing is more powerful than placing a spectators card in the center of the deck and then performing a miracle immediately after the card is returned or placing the deck down and out of the hands immediately after, etc. This transparency can be extremely powerful. So here are my favorite principles to accomplish this.

1.) Hofzinser spread cull the card. This is the most direct way of controling a card AT THE TIME of selection and replacement. This method is great because it requires no secondary move. The spectator replaces the card and it is controled at the same time.

2.) The principle of using a dummy card is BY FAR the best way to make the direct impression of placing the card at center while actually controling it elsewhere. This can be done in several ways. 1.) If you are going to view the card along with the spectator, then ANY good ACR move will get the job done. Some ACR moves can be executed without having the card face up (like the Marlow Tilt). 2.) A top change can also get the job done because the move occurs prior to placing the card in the deck and the specator will be looking for a moment of suspicion AFTER the card is placed. 3.) If the identity of the card is known either by force, peak or presentation (as in ACR) then a similar card can be culled and used as the dummy (i.e. via a DL a 3ofH is substituted with a 2ofH, placed in the center of the deck and shown to the spectator with one heart sticking out of the deck and the index finger over the pip... momentarily passing the 2 off as the 3. This could even be done with a Jack as a King with a quick glance). 4.) Danny Garcia has a REALLY bold method of passing off a dummy card as a selected card. I believe it's called the 'Ego Change'. It's described in one of his video series... I don't recall which one.

All solutions to the problems that you have can be answered by returning to some of the basic principles of magic (not just card magic).

-Keep the dirty work as far away from the important moments of the illusion as possible.
-Pass off something else in place of what the spectator understands to be reality.

Far too often there is an ego among card workers that creates the ideal that a card miracle must be accomplished by an equally impossible miracle. And this is NEVER truly the case in the practice of solid and seemingly transparent illusionry.

Cfirwin3 you present some very valid points but this is only your opinion not fact.

Vinny,
I think any post without proper crediting is considered to be an opinion and taken with a grain of salt. That being said, since there is no way to turn any of our claims into solid facts we are left with conjectures as presented by Cfirwin3. Personally I'd tend to agree with most of what he has posted... just my opinion though.

J

We all know the way transfer a block of cards from the top to the bottom easily without disturbing the order of the pack (Double Undercut)

But is there a similar alternative for controlling a block of less than 3 cards from the bottom to the top? I have only read of Gary Ouellet's solution, but I feel it is too contrived for my use. Any good solutions in print somewhere?

Yes, Marlo's Delibirate Side-steal will do, but I am actually looking for a cutting sequence that does this (I have developed an Hindu Shuffle type one, but it would be a lot better if I don't have to shift grips.)

Someone has also suggested a bluff cut (cutting just the cards I need from the bottom to the top). It is actually workable for my taste. But is there 'better' solutions out there?

Thanks!

Jay what I said was I agree with what crfin3 said and his points are very valid.
but it is his opinion and we all hve our opinions.
Depending on the routine that is presented then we can some how come up with the best handling to bring a card to the top of the pack once again this is only my opinion..
and I only recommed what I do perhaps others will want to try my tried techniques
and I am not saying which one is the best
vinny

I might be missing something, but I'm pretty sure the basic Double Undercut idea has been used to move cards from the bottom to the top as well.

No you are not missing any thing the DU is excellent.
to get on topic the question was controlling a chosen cad to the top of the pack.
not which control is the best.
vinny

Of course; Andrew is right. Just double cut from bottom to top. HL.

Vinny,

Sorry, my response was to Alel's post, not yours.

Anyway, the original post asked about which ways he ought to learn to control a card. I agree with those such as Uli or Open Traveller who, on the first page of the thread, said the choice needs to be made based on the effect. In most circumstances there are two classes of controls -- visible controls and invisible controls. Having a good method for both of these is important unless you don't mind having your material limited.

A shuffle or cut would be a visible control. Meaning, the control happens using obvious actions that the audience is capable of perceiving which change the state of the deck.

A pass or side-steal would be an invisible control. Meaning, the control happens without apparently doing anything to the deck. (Obviously, we're assuming competent execution here...)

Neither of these is inherently superior to the other. If you're doing an ACAAN-type of effect, a shuffle makes sense, since the card is supposed to be in a random location. If you're doing an ACR type of effect, then an invisible control makes more sense, since you want the audience to think that the card is in a fixed location before it appears in the new location (otherwise, there's no real effect). Depending upon how you analyze your effect, you might want to go with a double-undercut, or a shuffle followed by a DL to show it's not on top (and to take heat off that action, show that it's not on the bottom either which you can do without a sleight), or a pass, or a steal followed by a re-load if you want to really sell the idea that the card is lost by having the deck handed out for shuffling, etc. Other things that might need to be taken into consideration could be whether the card needs to be in a fixed location within the deck (perhaps offtopic here), whether or not you're doing this with a single card or multiple cards, whether or not you're using a crummy borrowed deck (this can create problems for some moves), whether or not other parts of the deck need to stay in order, etc.

Thanks for the reply, Andrew.

Yes, a visible control as you put it is OK by me. I have nothing against them in the context I wish to use it.

Yes, the Double Undercut action has been used to control bottom to top as well. (Preceeded with a Swing/Kick Cut)...But I am looking for some ways to get rid of the Swing/Kick Cut. Not that I am against it, but I am just looking for some way to eliminate it somehow...

Alel,

Depending upon the context, there are multiple ways, visible and invisible, of getting the block up there. It would help if we knew more details about the trick.

Starting up a thread in Secret Sessions might be a good idea.

Vinny,

It's my opinion based on my experience. That's the only information that I have to give... and is what I expect from all other individuals posting or even marketing various effects and techniques.

Cfirewin3 I agree with you 100 perecent never the less it is still ones opinion and not fact.because a effecxt or control does not meet with your criteria does't mean the product is not worthy..
if I siad the classic pass is the best way to control a card to the top based on my experience this does not mean it is
any way all is good
vinny

Vinny,

I agree with you... the only negative statement that I think that I made was "Nothing looks more suspicious than making a strange or seemingly useless motion after returning a card to the deck or shuffling or cutting the deck after returning a card and passing off the motion as "losing the card in the deck""

But I don't believe that I discounted shifting the deck or undercutting wholesale. If one has an effect in which one of these methods may be executed without suggesting that something 'extra' has been done... more power to you!

It just seemed to me that the original question indicated a desire to know a method that "doesn’t arouse too much suspicion"... and to me, that would indicate a move that creates the perception of having a card inserted and then nothing else following (like a shuffle, undercut, or needless motion of the deck like a turn-over).

I was just trying to take into account what I thought was the context of the original question.

no disrespect to all you shifters and undercutters out there (I do both as well... when the time is right).

This is why I suggesred the Hop move it is very bold and looks like yop are cutting the card to the middle of the pack
if you are not familar with the hop pm me with e mail address and I will send ademo to y6ou
take care and your post has opened a lot of eyes even mine
vinny

I think Weapon's "Shinobi Control" certainly deserves a well ranked place on the list!

MMc

I would say center palm.