How do we as Christians justify, lying for a living or just when doing our illusions?

True story! When first being introduced to Christ, I thought doing the "ticket to heaven trick" would be kinda nice to do for some children of my pastor. I used the patter that I had received my ticket to heaven and was so excited. After the reveil of the cross and hell spelled out the pastor's daughter said "so you didn't get a ticket?" I said "no dear that comes when we are saved and not in paper form" She replied without hesitation " that means your just a liar. My heart sank and I put down magic for 3 years, until recently picking it back up again.

I'm still finding it hard to perform, even for friends and I was once a pro performer. Anyway I'm sure this has been discussed at nausea but I wanted to share my story and read your feedback. Magicians helping magicians and all.

Having been in children's ministries for over 20+ years as my full-time occupation, I can tell you that one will always encounter children who only want to "one-up" you regardless if you do a magic trick, tell a story, use an object lesson, etc. By her logic, she would need to call Jesus a liar since He used metaphorical language in His parables. I would be curious to know if there were other encounters like the one you experienced in your story? If not: don't let that discourage you from embracing an effective method for teaching the gospel... If there were other similar encounters: then, perhaps you would need to re-frame or re-phrase some of the patter.

I always make sure children know I'm speaking in metaphors/similes when I am using an illustrative method, regardless of the method. I also re-remind them at the conclusion with something like: "I love doing these cool tricks so we all learn! Did you know that Jesus does something REAL in our lives? The handkerchiefs changed to help us understand that idea..."

Be of good cheer my friend!

I'm not really a Gospel type performer and my background is more in busking and mentalism but I hear you and will consider your words. Thank you.

Don't take what I've said as harsh criticism -- I don't know you and only want to elevate the art of Gospel Magic

I know when my kids were growing up, I told them stories to illustrate certain things. I never felt like a liar.
I have done tricks in a children's church setting. One led to my own daughter's prayer. Didn't feel like a liar.

In fact, I'd be willing to bet that *you* did not feel like you were lying - until that child spoke that word.
As Jamie pointed out, Jesus Himself used stories in the NT, and the prophets are full of them as well.

Lying is meant to deceive in a hurtful way.
We illustrate truths that take someone closer to Jesus.

Unfortunately, some children either can't wrap their minds around these concepts, or just want to stomp on the performer.
I've been in front of both!!

The biggest thing that has rescued me in these situations is being fully confident of my position on this.
I can explain anything to a reasonable person, and know I'm in the right.
An unreasonable child, though, can throw your whole day off!

Ed

I agree with Ed on his points

Study the work of Jerry Andrus. He never lied when performing magic.

At least that's what he told people

Opening our program with the Spot Card, then quote 2nd Corinthians 4:2 -- though my "living Bible' uses the phrase "I'm not here to TRICK You." Other Translations use the words-deceit-craftiness-etc- - Then explain that we use effects to illustrate verses - like our SundaySchool Teachers used - the flannel board, puppets - etc. Also, like was said -parables were NOT lies.

Easy answer: St. John Bosco, the Catholic saint, was also a magician. Additionally, Pope John Paul had a well-corroborated theatrical arts background.

My first thought would be "ask any Christian who works in sales or marketing."

Particularly, I ask this one of Mormons in sales, because I'm not aware of any other major belief system that lays it out quite as clearly and unambiguously in such a fundamental teaching resource as Gospel Principles Chapter 31: "When we speak untruths, we are guilty of lying. We can also intentionally deceive others by a gesture or a look, by silence, or by telling only part of the truth. Whenever we lead people in any way to believe something that is not true, we are not being honest." It goes on to clarify that acts such as intentionally providing an inferior product or service are dishonest, as well as more common acts of omission like not speaking up when you know you've gotten too much change. I've heard "strategic silence" and half-truths justified elsewhere, but I have to say that is one of, if not the best "no loopholes" statement of what dishonesty is that I've found anywhere.

If anyone can point out a similar statement in the central resources of any other faith, (I'm aware of the actual Biblical references, of course.) I'd be happy to add it to my "counteroffensive weapons to be used against those who try to hard-sell me" library.

Yeah, you definitely want to have the focus on preaching the gospel and teaching people. Ever heard of Orthodox Christianity? You should look into it!

If being a magician is "lying for a living" then being an actor must be equally deceptive, ie you are pretending to be somebody that you're not, you could therefore say that the entire performance is a lie

These are not (necessarily) my opinions, btw, I am just illustrating how ridiculous (to me) your question is.

SERIOUSLY!, a throw away comment by a kid made you quit magic for 3 years. All you had to do was change your opening patter from "i've received a ticket to Heaven" to "let's imagine this is a ticket to heaven"

I try to "cover" myself with any new group of children or even remind the 'usual' group, that I don't do "REAL" magic because the Bible says not to. I am going to try and "TRICK" you.
(Even Penn of 'Penn and Teller' suggests, if you admit you are going lie and deceive, you have given yourself licence to do so???)
I started out as a 'new Christian' doing a (NON Gospel) magic show for our Youth Group, it went quite well, as far as I remember. But when I got home I thought about what I had done.... I thought that was deceit, and what right did I have doing that to our YG? I prayed and apologised to God, saying I will not do that again, even though I enjoyed doing magic. I don't know how long I stopped, 6 months - 1 year, but I met a chap, (or God led me to him?), who showed me a HEAP of FCM "Christian Conjurer" magazines, I fell to my knees and thanked God, now I can still do magic, but do it for God.
I still squirm a little when I do an effect with "Boomerangs", one white and one black, both with "LIES" written on them. The black one reminds us of the big bad dirty lies, but the white one (Placed above the black one) is a little White lie and is not as bad as the Big Black Lie, is it? BUT, the little white has to be covered by another little white lie, then another, and another until the little white lie (Grows) biger than the black lie, as I place the Black lie over the White lie. BUT in actual fact, as I shrink the white lie(??), God sees BOTH lies the same size...
BTW. - Read in your Bible Joshua 2:3 to 6 & Joshua2:25. This a Bible story where "Rahab" lies and it seems OK??? James 2:25.

His peace be with you.

Where in the scriptures does it say not to lie. The 9th Commandment says not to bear false witness against they neighbor. This in itself does not cover all "lies". Scripture also states to love your neighbor as your self. This doesn't always apply to a general, "Do not lie?".
In the example mentioned above about Rahab it does not defy the 9th Commandment.
So in fact what the lesson here is- When is it okay to lie and when is it not? When making a statement that isn't true what is the virtuous way to go about it?
The examples that are mentioned in previous posts are very good. We let the audience know that this is just a trick, an
illusion or demonstration; Not doing "real" magic such as when the Bible refers to "magic arts".
We also choose our words carefully as Papa Legba stated,"Let's imagine..."

There's a lot that can be done to illustrate Bible Verses and Christian Ideas with 'effects' - I have started my program with 2nd Corinthians 4:1-2. using the 'spot card, but I use the "The Living Bible"-Paraphrased (plain English-not King James-thee and thou) as it says "We do not try to TRICK people". Also use 1st Corinth.12:4-7. The LORD gave you the ability to Entertain(?). Don't be Holier than Thou or Prideful "HaHa I fooled You. Remember. Others also use the flannel board,puppets,Vent. to TEACH the BIBLE. Use simple effects - LARGE ILLUSIONS usually have people look at YOU. I just notice, I also posted this 9-21-17. (:->) Blessing (some say good luck) to you and yours. Ralph ROUSSEAU (russo)