I have discovered two threads in the "All tied up' section asking about the merits of various cable tie thumb tie routines.

What are the relative merits of the following for doing a thumb tie routine where objects are openly passed through the tied thumbs. (As opposed to using the thumb tie for an 'in-and-out' escape)

Kenton's Black tie
Joe Montie's Thumb tie
Abbotts Thumb tie
Poor Boy thumb tie

What I've gleaned from the posts made in the other threads is:

Kenton's Black Tie is possibly not the smoothest/easiest of methods. It can be a bit 'fiddly'.

Joe Montie's is the most difficult to assess as Joe himself was the only one commenting on his method in the thread. The promo vid for this pitches it with an in-and-out routine and that's not what I'm interested in. I am therefore unsure if this is a good or even viable method for passing an object through the tied thumbs as all the action in Joe's routine is covered by a cloth.

The Poor Boy: requires careful management of the assisting spectators in applying the cable ties, but there is apparently a two sentence description of a 'one cable tie' version mentioned in the manuscript that doesn't have this issue. It was suggested though that 'cover' was needed for the effect, again making the suitability for a, 'passing and object through the thumbs', presentation difficult to assess.

The Abbotts thumb tie, which I believe uses a gimmick I saw as a kid, and is similar to the one Losander's 'Chain Breaker' uses and his is more or less the same gimmick that the "Red Tape" thumb tie uses. While I am only interested in using cable ties if the Abbotts gimmick is the one I'm thinking it is this could be the easiest and cleanest way to go... despite the inclusion of an (unseen) gimmick.

Any further input, or corrections of my impressions about the merits or otherwise of these or other cable tie methods available for purchase would be appreciated, but I am only interested in cable ties and not other means of restraints. (Such as pipe cleansers, string, thumb-cuffs or whatever)

Many thanks in advance for any help on this.

You need to get some cable ties and play with them. Technically, an advantage of ties is that they hold their shape. If you know TT, you'll know the great advantage of this. There are, of course, pros and cons to each method.

Thanks Harley.

Getting and playing around with some cable ties was of course the first thing I did. However I seriously doubt my efforts will better the years of study and practical experience that the creators and users of these established methods have amassed.

I'm quite happy to take advantage of this wealth of experience by buying whatever might be best suited to what I'm after... but that's what I'm seeking guidance and advice about; the pros and cons of each method as applied to the intended use that I mentioned in the opening post.

If you have any pros and cons regarding the merits of these different methods or indeed any comments on my assessment of them from gleaned from other threads please let me know. Knowing I'm wrong about about some aspect of the appropriateness of a method could easily be as useful as confirmation of it or indeed new information regarding it.

many thanks.

I think the pros and cons are entwined with the way you're telling the story of what you're doing. What's your story line?

Sent you a PM Harley but feel feel free to post your responses here.

many thanks.

Sealegs
Not sure how helpful this will be, but here goes - my brief experience with the "Poor Boy" zip tie.
This effect comes with some brief instructions - most of which deal with using 2 cuffs together. There is just enough explanation to figure it out, and a few diagrams.
The instructions mention a method of using just one tie. As I remember - the single tie instructions were a little "light", and it would be nice to have a bit more information (I think it was one or two not very helpful sentences).
Shortly after getting the effect, I lost the instruction sheet. By carefully watching the demo video on YouTube, I believed I had the single tie method figured out. I sent a PM to our man Roslyn on this forum and he verified I had it correct.
Note - Roslyn uses the single tie Thumb tie method successfully.

One day, at a juggling festival, I found an unused zip tie laying around, and decided on the spur of the moment to give the effect a try. I intended to do it for just one or two of my friends, however, withing a minute of beginning, I had 7 people around me watching - oh dear.
I'm sure my unrehearsed presentation let me down, but I was disappointed when 5 of the 7 immediately had it figured out (the other 2 might have, but didn't say anything) - even though I used the pliers to tighten as misdirection, and tried to watch the angles too - it just wasn't convincing and they saw through it. In my case, I didn't do an in-and-out routine, I just did it as an escape. (did a quick 360 pirouette to cover the escape).

My intent with this post is to let you know my brief experience with this method, and demonstrate the importance (as with all escapes) of the presentation and control (obviously I failed at both of these - don't do as I did). This method needs some thought and good misdirection - and even then... well I have to admit that I have lost confidence the effect, and will need to think carefully before trying it again.
Perhaps I can leave you with this... I think this method is best used when you have a stage situation, and get one volunteer to do the "zip-tie-ing" and verify you are secured for everyone. From the audience perspective, I think this would look ok (from a distance), but it needs some careful handling and support from strong misdirection to convince anyone close to you.

I hope this is helpful for you. I would love to hear if you find a better option.

Sparrowhwk: Thanks very much for your post. Although I appreciate you performed this off the cuff, your comments echo those of others and your frankness and the detail of your post certainly helps in forming an assessment as to what might be the best avenue.

I'm sure the Poor Boy method is a good working fit for many performers and situations but I feel that it probably not the way to go for what I'm after. Thanks again.

Sealegs
If you do come across a method you think will work better, I would love to hear about it. You can PM me if that would be better given the rules of this forum. I was excited about the possibilities of using zip ties, as they are becoming pretty much everyday items, and it would be nice to incorporate them into a show. In a way I wonder if they might be better than thumb-cuffs which spectators might think gimmicked. The best part about the Poor-Boy method is that you could open a bag of off the shelf ties and go to work.

All the best with the search

I've always loved The Jaspernese Thumb Tie method, because it was so convincing, but I liked in-again out-again presentations much better. Then, I thought about doing the Jim Ryan tie with a single pipe cleaner - it works great and gets the laughs. I suppose a cable tie could be used for the same method.

I too use the Poor Boy, but as an in and out (single zip tie).
Like Al mentions, the Jaspernese and Jim Ryan ties are great. I have used both of them. Poor Boy is the one I settled on.