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The Magic Cafe Forum Index :: Right or Wrong? :: Is price fixing / resale price maintenance by creators acceptable or even legal? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Good to here.
barts185
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Inner circle
Can you believe I've been wrong on
1355 Posts

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This started in the David Regal Clarity box thread. http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......tart=150

Even though it was brought up by the creator of the effect, apparently others felt that it distracted from the conversation while comments of

Amen and amen

were acceptable.



Here's the last comment I had made with some prior quotes:

Quote:
On 2013-08-25 03:19, barts185 wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-08-25 02:30, Joe Roberts wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-08-25 01:10, barts185 wrote:
Quote:
On 2013-08-24 23:24, Joe Roberts wrote:
I'm referring to your whole post that suggests that producers requiring sellers to list items at a certain price is price fixing.

That's not what the term means.


"Vertical price fixing includes a manufacturer's attempt to control the price of its product at retail."

Am I misunderstanding that sentence?


Well, you're not misunderstanding it but you may have stopped reading too soon. As the next sentence says, this form of "price fixing" is not illegal, so you shouldn't really conflate it with actual price fixing.

http://gbr.pepperdine.edu/2010/08/price-......animals/


From the article you linked:

Thus, minimum RPM is not always legal or illegal, but each case will be analyzed on an individual basis, taking all relevant factors into consideration. It is worth noting that a significant amount of U.S. state law and legislation conforms to the new federal standard, but not all do.


From a more recent article:
http://www.wlf.org/upload/legalstudies/l......nder.pdf

Background.
Resale price maintenance is the practice by which a manufacturer of a product
establishes a fixed or minimum price for resale of the product which retailers or other distributors can
charge. For nearly 100 years, RPM agreements were held to be per se (or inherently) illegal under the
U.S. Supreme Court decision in Dr. Miles Medical Co. v. John D. Park & Sons Co., 220 U.S. 373
(1911). In 2007, the U.S. Supreme Court reversed that long-standing precedent in Leegin Creative
Leather Prods. Inc. v. PSKS Inc., 551 U.S. 877 (2007) (“Leegin”), which held that RPM agreements are
subject to “rule of reason” analysis. Under that analysis, an RPM agreement is illegal only if it is found
to be unreasonable because its anti-competitive impacts outweigh its pro-competitive benefits.

Congressional Efforts to Repeal Leegin. In January 2009, Senator Herb Kohl introduced
Senate Bill 148, the “Discount Pricing Consumer Protection Act,” which sought to repeal Leegin and
codify per se illegality of RPM. The bill, re-introduced as Senate Bill 75 in January 2011, was reported
favorably by the Senate Judiciary Committee on November 3, 2011.

The bill still has many hoops to go through before it becomes law. However, legislation to
overturn Leegin has been supported in the past by at least 35 state attorneys general.1 In addition, the
bill likely will get additional support should the nominee for the next head of the Justice Department’s
Antitrust Division, William Baer, be approved. Mr. Baer, speaking at a Senate Judiciary Committee
nomination hearing on July 26, 2012, said he would support action by Congress to repeal Leegin. The
Senate Judiciary Committee approved Mr. Baer’s nomination on September 20, 2012. The nomination
will now proceed to the full Senate.


Conclusion. Despite the clear holding in Leegin applying rule of reason analysis to RPM, the
ultimate impact of that decision at both the federal and state level remains uncertain. The most prudent
conclusion for any company with national distribution would be that RPM agreements are at risk of
being successfully challenged as per se violations in one or more states, either by the state itself or in a
private damage action.

Thus, the safest course of action for businesses that distribute their products nationally is to treat
resale price maintenance as was usually done prior to the Leegin decision—i.e., by unilaterally
announcing suggested minimum resale prices, without requesting or allowing any agreement by
distributors to adhere to those prices, with the option of terminating distributors that ignore them.
Another option is to implement a minimum advertised price (MAP) program where the distributor gets
advertising funds back from the supplier if it advertises prices only above a certain level. While there is
some risk associated with this option since courts and agencies might see a MAP program as an effort to
implement RPM, such a program should pass muster, especially if it merely determines the distributor’s
eligibility for the supplier’s coop advertising funds and allows the distributor to advertise prices below
those specified in the MAP program at its own expense.



So, it would seem that it is still illegal in some states, and highly questioned in others. I haven't found a follow-up article, but continue to look.



And, so far all of our discussion has been solely relating to the US.

My (admittedly limited) understanding is that while a lot of the world turns a blind eye, there are countries which have stricter interpretations, more in line with the original ruling in the US.



If anyone is interested, I'd like to continue the conversation.
Jonathan Townsend
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Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27303 Posts

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It's a small market with some interesting S/D curves between pre-market, introduction, seasonal, used item resale and knockoffs - before it can get to collector's status.

Then we get to wholesale, wholsale100, wholesale1000, and net30, net60, net90 pricing ... and returns policies.

so what's the target market again?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Bill Hegbli
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Eternal Order
Fort Wayne, Indiana
22797 Posts

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As the owner of Supreme Magic in England, which is now defunct for many years once wrote me a letter. The can charge any price they want to.

Gone are the days of figuring the manufacturing costs, plus initial R&D, plus advertising, packaging, and shipping costs. Just a gallon of gasoline is near $5 a gallon, they increase the price because they MIGHT have a shortage for one reason or another. They don't know, but let us increase the price anyway. If it does not, we of course will not return the overpayment, we will keep it as more profits for us and our stockholders.

Magic sells as Jonathon Townsend points out to a very limited market. There has emerged a secondary market of selling to the "want a be magician" or novice. This has controlled the pricing to look as low cost, when actually, it is to has what seems a reasonable price to the average consumer.

Magic has always kind of had "standard pricing" for certain kinds of tricks. Card tricks went from fifty cents to two dollars to three dollars, to twelve fifty to twenty dollars. Now it is in the $35 to $45 ranges. Inflation keeps increasing, thus prices keep increasing.

Use to be trick prices increased even thought nothing was added or taken away from the product. Now with the "new market", we have the biggest line of new products in the market in the whole history of selling magic tricks.

The bottom line is, if you don't like the advertised price, wait for or find a discounted price, or buy 2nd hand as the 2nd hand market has quadrupled in the last several years.

I guess there is kind of a price fixing, if you want to call it that. If you invent a card trick and put it out to sell. No matter the cost, you will pay the current market trend for the price of the card trick, unless it exceeded the making of a profit under the current price trend for card tricks.

Recently, a Paul Harris card to envelope come on the market for $45. That is $15 to $20 more then the current price trend. Paul Harris claims that the research for the correct material for the envelope and the manufacture of the envelope justifies the price increase. Even though it is an untested product as to the life of the material used. Many complaints say the price is $10 to dollars to high. Note they will accept an increase of $5, but not $15.

Will the price of the trick be lowered because of these unhappy customers over the high price. Of course not. They don't have to purchase the card trick. There are so many people in the world currently, that when the minority of people that think it is to much, there are 20 that does not think the same way, and will pay the asking price.

Just as a price for a home, varies because of location, square footage, and all the other excuses to justify the asking price. There will be someone who will pay the price asked.

Lastly, in magic you are not just buying a magic trick and how to do it. You are buying something to increase your wealth, be it income, popularity, or ego. The trick, if performed as instructed, will have value to you. Actually, it may be a value you cannot put a value on, but it is there none the less.

If people are just buying tricks to know how they are made and done, you should find another cheaper hobby, then thinking you can know the working of every trick ever invented. In the end you will have nothing, and be very poor, with not 401K to fall back on.

It is said the McDonald $100 Card Trick is called by this name solely because McDonald was offered $100 to explain the trick to someone who just had to know how it was done. So you see, instead of fifty cents, the creator sold it for $100. Was it to much, not the person who was willing to pay what he thought was a fair price for the secret.