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Connor J. Martin New user 53 Posts 
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Okay so I think eBay is pretty cool. But some people say that it's wrong to resell DVD's that you purchased because it's kind of like stealing from the creator. Because if someone buys their DVD from you then that's one less sale that the creator gets.
First of all I'm not sure if I agree with that logic. Secondly eBay is great for reasons like this. I was searching for rare magic books and DVD and found them on eBay. Now this is a DVD that was only produced for like a week and they stopped selling it for some B.S. reason but there is no way to get your hands on one of these unless someone who already owns it decides to sell it like this guy is. So, do you guys agree with the idea that eBay takes from creators or do you think only good things can come of it. Or are you somewhere in between? This might not be the correct forum but it's the just about the only one I use and I would like your guys opinions. |
john scot Special user brighton, uk 585 Posts
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I found this thread to be of help when I had the same question-
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=177 |
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Sword of the Soldier Elite user 437 Posts
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The whole stealing from creators idea can be applied to anything media based....books, movies, etc. However it's my understanding that the first sale doctrine established my the judiciary does hold for anything manufactured initially with the permission of those with the rights. So I personally have nothing at all against buying things on Ebay.
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Larry Barnowsky Inner circle Cooperstown, NY where bats are made from 4770 Posts
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As long as you are selling the original media or product and not a copy, there is nothing legally or ethically wrong with doing so. It is unethical IMO to make a copy for yourself of a DVD and then sell the original.
Larry |
Steve Rodman New user 17 Posts
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You bought it, you own it, you can sell it.
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ferrari New user 53 Posts
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I like ebay a lot works great for find rare magic but I also like magic club swap meets cause it only magicians there
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The great Gumbini Inner circle 3067 Posts
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I agree you should not copy to re-sell. That would be wrong. As far as actually selling the dvd or book? Well as long as there are places like ebay, swap-meets and garage sales I guess this is dealing in second hand items. Even Goodwills and Salvation Armys are full of these items albeit not on magic---but sometimes you do find these items. And then you have The Magic Castle swap-meet where I've picked up great items---books dvd's effects etc. So if you rightfully own it and did not copy it I guess IMO it's ok.
Good magic to all, Eric |
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necro555 Veteran user 335 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-04-20 12:13, Steve Rodman wrote: exactly, I've never felt guilty about selling stuff on ebay because they're always the original books and dvds. |
nucinud Inner circle New York, New York 1298 Posts
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EBay is like anything else, buyer beware, do your research on the seller and the item.
"We are what we pretend to be" Kurt Vonnegut, jr.
Now U C It Now U Don't Harry Mandel www.mandelmagic.com |
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Randwill Inner circle 1914 Posts
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Earlier this week in another section of the Café, a member expressed the opinion that anyone who performed magic that they learned from a library book was being unethical by violating the rights of the creator of the effects.
Many years ago I checked out "The Complete Illustrated Book of Card Magic" by Walter Gibson from the public library. Subsequently I used material I had learned from that book in paying gigs. Do any members feel that I behaved unethically in doing this? I have also purchased second-hand books and DVDs from eBay and elsewhere. I used material from these sources in paying gigs as well. Do any members feel I behaved unethically in these instances? Randwill |
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-06-20 13:15, Randwill wrote: Did you return the book to the library? Tony |
Bob Johnston Inner circle Philadelphia, PA 1251 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-04-18 23:25, Connor J. Martin wrote: As the posts above point out, it is not wrong to sell on eBay that which you have purchased and not copied. However: your concern about "eBay taking from creators" is misplaced. eBay is just the messenger, the people selling would be the culprit if indeed there is one. Bob |
(a)ndy Regular user New Zealand 164 Posts
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My only beef with eBay is that they (and indirectly through PayPal) take a reasonable financial cut out of every transaction. If anyone is the winner it is eBay.
If people are happy with the idea of you bought it, you own it and therefore you can resell it then why don't we have a magical auction site where any fees are used to further the art of magic. It could be run by some major magical organisation such as the IBM, SAM or even the Magic Castle. I don't think it should be run by a profit making company. This would need to be a site well publicised amongst the magical community which makes it much more attractive to resell magic on it rather than eBay. |
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Voldemort Special user Florida 562 Posts
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"Flight from death"
Buy the WILD AT HEART e-book to help Rachael Columbini here: http://www.lybrary.com/wild-heart-p-76110.html |
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(a)ndy Regular user New Zealand 164 Posts
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Interesting. I have just taken a look at magicaution.com. It certainly has plenty of auctions to make it a worthy resource.
I am not so sure about the bidding by email method though. It seems a bit clumsy compared to modern auction sites such as eBay. I will have to take a more thorough look at the workings of the site. |
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24315 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-07-12 10:42, (a)ndy wrote: Wake up! This is called "capitalism." It's part of a free market system. They pay for the servers. They pay for the software. They pay for the internet connection. Something has to foot the bill. Have you ever bought anything from one of those really big auctions, such as the recent Les Smith auction or the Jay Marshall auctions? They add 20% to the final price. That's the auctioneer's cut. Is it excessive? I don't think so. The auctioneer pays for the printing of the catalog, although they are sold at retail, they research the items, and they do the actual conduct of the auction. A good auctioneer can help an estate realize a huge amount of money. BTW, most club auctions add 10%. That's more than eBay. If you have a club auction, you might have a maximum of 100 people in the room. On eBay, your bidder field may be 10 or even 100 times that. If you don't like eBay, don't use it. I would estimate that about 25% of the cups in my collection were eBay purchases. I'm completely satisfied with them. If there is ever a decent online magic specialty auction, I'll go there. I've been to a half dozen or so. None compare to eBay. Example: I went to the one that was posted earlier just before I edited this. There were three sets of cups and balls on the site. NO PHOTOS!!!! Don't these guys want to sell this stuff? On eBay there are more than 300 sets of cups and balls.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
TheRaven Special user 597 Posts
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Although the orignal question has been covered in some detail on the prior mentioned post, it is a fascinating topic.
What is and isn't legal is well established. What is unique relates to when a "secret" is being sold. The original owner (in theory) keeps a copy of the secret in their head, while selling the DVD and the secret to a second person. It is an ethical question. After all the magician's code is not based on what is legal, so there is a precedence for the magic community to rise to a level above what is just legal. I am not aware of non-disclosure agreements being part of magic transactions, though I imagine in certain parts of the field they are. That said, I wonder if reselling a single unduplicated used copy is a widespread problem that significantly impacts the creator. Duplication and selling of illegal copies surely must have a much bigger impact. Maybe I am wrong. How many magicians would part with a book if they had found it useful? I wouldn't. If they do sell something is it because they don't plan to perform it anymore or never did? Does that make it ethical to do so? Is it ethical to resell a novel after you have enjoyed the story? Is it ethical to resell a math book after you have learned to multiply or a cook book after you have learned the recipe? Why is magic unique. Is it because "the secret" represents in some cases up to 90% of what you are buying? I suspect most magician's would find nothing wrong with buying an old used magic book at a used book store. They may even congratulate themselves on a great find. Those same magician's would find re-selling a one-trick pamphlet on ebay unethical. It is a complicated question with no simple answer. |
Fábio DeRose Inner circle San Paolo, Brasile 1477 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-07-12 10:42, (a)ndy wrote: So, Your point is that eBay should be charital and work for free? Not even strippers work for free, buddy. |
corsufle Loyal user 202 Posts
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I agree with TheRaven that it is an ethical and not a legal question.
I also think it is ridiculous for anyone to publish a book or CD and then pretend that it is a secret. You published it! Publishing is the opposite of keeping a secret. If you really must sell your secret then license it and include a non-disclosure agreement.
Who is the Fool with the guitar?
Find out at HobbyhorseMusic.com |
Posted: Apr 19, 2009 03:25 am 