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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24315 Posts 
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Some of you know that I review tricks, books and DVD's for one of the major magic magazines. I seldom review anything that isn't sent directly to the magazine, unless I happen to get a really neat trick and I ask for permission to review it.
The biggest problem I have with the current crop of DVD's is that just about any Thomas, Richard and/or Harold who has a video camera thinks he can make a magic instruction video. It just ain't so. So here are a few hints that will improve your videos, if you are planning to do one. 1) Keep the presentation and explanation crystal clear. Do the trick, just as you would for a real person. Then explain it, step by step. If there are any sleights, explain them in a separate section before the main explanation. Likewise, if special gimmicks are used, explain how to make them or how to use them BEFORE you start the explanation. Once you have that out of the way, then explain the trick, step by step. Don't jump around from one part of the explanation to another. Keep it very simple. Don't do crazy camera angles during the explanation. In fact, you shouldn't do them during the performance section, either. Also, please don't use "enhancements" such as adding graininess to the video to simulate an old movie, while you are doing the important stuff. The purpose of your video is two fold 1) to show the trick. 2) to teach the trick. If the video gets in the way of either one of these, it is not fulfilling its purpose and its promise. 2) Now for a very important part: make sure you speak clearly. Make sure your pronunciation is reasonably correct. Don't swallow your words. 3) If your video is being translated into another language, and there is an overdub, be sure that you have someone who is a native speaker of the target language do the translation and the voice over. Don't let false pride cause you to produce a less than excellent video. 4) Finally, make sure that your labeling is easy to read. When I look for your DVD in my collection, I don't want to have to squint, use a magnifying glass or shine a spotlight on the dern thing to find it. And please, please, please, make sure that everything on your case and your DVD is spelled correctly. If you are charging money for your product, you should give good value for it.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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John Carey V.I.P. 1057 Posts
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Well said sir.
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Aaron Little Loyal user Lexington KY 263 Posts
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Great post. I own a video production business and I find myself saying these same things quite often.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24315 Posts
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Thanks for your support. Maybe we can save one or two producers the embarrassment of a bad video.
You can tell the pro's when they submit their material. The material is scripted and outlined. And if they make a mistake, they reshoot the scene. One thing I left out, and I should have put it in there -- make sure that YOU can do all the sleights that you expect your customer/student to do.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Big Jeff Loyal user 300 Posts
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Great points Bill.
One thing I would like to see is the flow from one trick to the next, especially in walkaround situations. Pocket management is a big question. Maybe the whole show, from start to finish, could be an bonus feature with NO cutting. |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts
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I'll go further. Not only is Bill correct but before you release something for sale make sure you have something
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Tom G Inner circle 2900 Posts
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Great post Bill and Magic Santa. To take Magic Santa's a little further, make sure
it's yours to release. |
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DonDriver Inner circle 1790 Posts
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Amen !
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts
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Don Driver being here reminds me of something. Don has put out about three DVDs which do not have a great studio production but the content is of very high value. I'd have loved to see them with better cameras etc but I'd rather have the information the way it is than not at all. Then guys put out high level production of useless material that no one will use in performance, might be cool, but of no value. I think if I had to choose between great production or great content I'd vote for content.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24315 Posts
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Most of the new DVD's are not about a show, per se, but about a single trick or a short routine. So the context of the trick will vary from person to person.
There should be a good DVD on routining the walkaround show, though. That would make a lot of sense.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Hearttau Elite user New Jersey: Exit 15 E 423 Posts
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My pet peeve of late is inappropriate language from the younger magicians. The rational seems to be that they’re keeping it real. Now, I’ll be the first one to admit that I can curse with the worst of them when I’m upset enough, but you’ll never find me cursing on the job. If it’s strictly a performance DVD and that’s your style, that’s fine, but if the focus of the DVD is to teach, please respect your students by watching your adjectives.
I’ve posted this elsewhere, but since spring, I’ve seen three street magicians using foul language in front of children. Very sad. Let your magic speak for you and please respect your audience by considering who they are and the impact your choice of words might have.
Lentidigitator: “A magic artist who performs slow motion magic”... Rene Lavand
"Peace and all good"... St. Francis "Hold on to your joy!"... Me 
http://mysite.verizon.net/hearttau/ |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24315 Posts
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I agree with you completely.
I know this will sound silly, but if you want to see how to teach a trick, watch some of the shows on the DIY network. I'll admit that some of the presenters are a tad boring. But they are there to explain how to do the projects. They start out by showing you what they are going to do. Then they break it down and show you how to do it. Then you see what they did. In music, this is called "sonata form." In writing, it's called "thesis form." Exposition - Development - Recapitulation. These are the terms for sonata form. You tell them what you are going to tell them. Then you tell them. Then you tell them what you told them. It's basic. Keeping it real is one thing. But making it an effective teaching tool is another thing.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Robert M Inner circle 2482 Posts
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I've purchased DVDs from some of the younger magicians here on TMC, and the crediting is either incomplete or non-existent. Please do your homework - it's important.
Robert |
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jstone Inner circle Someday I'll have 1473 Posts
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Robert,
I completely agree about crediting. However, I have a question for you. I'm legitimately asking this to find out the answer, not to spark a debate. I've "created" several moves or tricks or ideas, etc over the years. I'll pick one as an example. It's a "splitting" move that I call The Atomic Split. I've been doing it for years. One day I was watching a Dave Acer video and he did the exact same move and credited it to Ben Harris. Unless I happened to watch that video, I would have never known that someone else had also developed the move. All too often, I hear people say exactly what you said, "do your homework." I agree, but the question is how? I've read all the classics: Expert at the card table expert card technique royal road bobo etc etc Yet there are thousands and thousands and thousands of books and videos, etc that I'll never read. Should I be required to search through all of that material and hope to stumble across something that resembles what I'm doing? I'm often told to ask others. I've done that as well. I've shown many of my moves and explained many of my moves to many many magicians who had "never seen that move before." Where do you draw the line? Many people have said that Max Maven and Jon Racherbaumer are experts in this area. However, these guys have better things to do than to look at every single thing that I think is original with me. Again, I'm a firm believer in giving credit where credit is due, and I also know that pretty much there is "nothing new under the sun." However, at the same time, when I get a credit wrong, I get attacked and often in an unprofessional manner. I've been doing a move for years that was shown to me by a very well studied magician. He told me the move was Ed Marlo's. By happenstance on a David Regal video, I discovered that the move is actually belongs to Wesley James. Should I be required to double check all of the current moves that I think I already know who created them? Where is the line to be drawn? So again, remember my point here was not to argue but to get some legitimate information on how to go about ensuring that proper crediting is accomplished. By the way, Bill Palmer, who began this thread can, hopefully, vouch for my interest in ensuring proper credit. On more than one occasion I've emailed and PM'd him looking for assistance in this area, so please don't hear this post as a rant from someone looking for an excuse to not credit. Your thoughts, or anybody elses, would be very much appreciated. Thank you. |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts
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I'll give my opinion and I am one who forgets names of effects and people all the time. I've seen people on DVDs say things like "I came up with this move but I don't know if it was around before I stumbled across it. If so I'm not trying to sleight them but I have not seen it before...." or "I'm not a magic historian and don't know the complete history of this routine but I stand on their shoulders and if someone knows the origin please let me know..." and I actually respect that. There are some guys who can tell you the history back to Hocus Pocus Jr. on some effects and bless their hearts, others give credits with authority and are completely off base. The problem I have is if someone refuses to accept that something they 'created' was around before they came up with it. It doesn't mean they are not creative and that the amount of thought that went into the effect wasn't as much as the originator (or in some cases the 20,000 other magicians who also came up with it) it just happens that others have done magic before them.
That all being said if someone happens to believe they created something and they are not taking a 'It is all me' stand they don't deserve to get insulted for not being aware of the full history of the effect. DME and Maven and guys like that know stuff that 99% of magicians will never encounter or think of, that doesn't mean the 99% are lazy or inconsiderate. We can only do our best and respect those that try to teach our history and those that try to teach our history should respect those of us who benefit from your knowledge. |
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Robert M Inner circle 2482 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-07-15 17:15, jstone wrote: If you're going to publish an "original" move or effect, then I think it's your responsibility to thoroughly research the history. I would send it to knowledgable people on the various magic forums, and I would pursue all leads (books, videos, etc.) before publishing. It's time consuming and it can be expensive, but I think we owe it to the creators. Hopefully, future generations of magicians will do the same for you. Robert |
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jstone Inner circle Someday I'll have 1473 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-07-16 12:44, Robert M wrote: Robert, Thanks for the response. When you say pursue all leads, do you literally mean watch all DVDs and read ALL books on magic? Also, I've emailed Maven in the past and have not received a response. I sent a couple of follow up emails, but still no response. Frankly, I don't blame him. He doesn't know me from Adam and has much bigger fish to fry than helping me find an obscure move published elsewhere. Again, regarding the Wesley James move, I did my research on that, and I was given the wrong information by "knowledgeable people." I've posted stuff on forums; I've read a ton of books and watched a ton of videos. I'm just trying to understand where the line is drawn. When can you claim something as original? After you've literally read every publication about magic from cover to cover and didn't find your move? If that's the case, then nobody can claim originality on anything. So, remember I'm not picking a fight here, I'm just looking for an answer to a legitimate question. Thanks again. Please keep the discussion going. I'm very interested in what people have to say and what advice can be offered. |
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Robert M Inner circle 2482 Posts
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I'm not saying you have to read every book and watch every video. But, I can think of at least 10 or 20 extremely knowledgeable magicians right here on TMC who would probably be happy to look at what you've got and help determine if it's original or not. Maybe you're asking the wrong people.
Good luck, Jeff. Robert |
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts
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In the early days of video, only large, established companies released books or videos and they were heavily researched.
With self publishing and home recordings, anyone can put out products. There are folks that will help with research questions, but relationships have to be developed with them. Most feel too many young folks are learning magic from L&L or Elusionist DVD's and then after a short time, releasing there own material. Some respected, knowledgable senior's have no interest in helping because they feel the art isn't being respected.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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drumdemon420 Veteran user 396 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-07-16 18:49, Christopher Kavanagh wrote: No disrespect intended here at all, but my options are limited (at present) due to where I live. I have no choice but to pursue this interest through DVDs, books etc. If I wanted to get a mentor I would quite possibly have to drive hours and we all know that gas isn't cheap in the USA at present. Granted, I have no desire to release anything but what is a self taught magician to do? I would be more than happy to give the proper credit but no one is perfect and things can get over looked by accident. I think that if you do your best within your means that should be enough. Am I way off in this notion? |
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Posted: Jul 13, 2008 09:28 am 