Its a real simple coin through class type of trick. I didn't even have to buy dvd.

Infusion

I'm not exactly sure of the method you used for sure. But it looks excatly like David Williamson's coin through glass using the St****g va**sh.

Its only in his out of print book, not on any dvd. And there are many applications of the move,

If I am mistaken, I apologize.

Hang ping chen with a glass, novel!

I would work more on giving the illusion that the left hand is covering the mouth of the glass.

The Striking Vanish has been described outside David Williamson's book. I believe Michael Weber described his version of a similar effect using a dime...

This was published in the Collected Almanac by Kaufman, yes ago, using a dime (I think) and bottle by Michael Weber.


Best,
Joe


Posted: Jan 8, 2006 6:05pm
-------------------------------------
Jon, you beat me to it...lol

Dawgs your making me sound like a bad guy here. I wasnt saying that to brag and Im not ripping anyone off. If I see it and know how it done that's not my fault. Its not like I stole it. I think its ellusionist that's the one that stole it because the post above yours says that David Williamsons has this trick in one of his books but ellusionist is selling it like something new from this magician I never even heard of. So I think they are the one you should be bad at.

Actually, if you see it and know how its done and then perform it, it is exactly like you stole it!!!
Whether or not it's really ellusionist's is not the point, because at the time you knew it was their's.

You can't brag about stealing it and not even buying the DVD, and then after you find it isn't theirs claim no harm was done.

Figuring something out does not change the fact that if you perform something without buying it, you are peforming someone else's effect!!!

-daegs

Daegs, I bet you do routines or sleights that you did not buy.
Think of it like this. What if I thought I created it and I also preform it to people. Than a year later I find out that I wasn't the first to create this routine. Is that still stealing. Well no I don't think so. Not if I didn't say that I created it after finding out.

So if I see an add for a DVD with a trick in it that I want to learn but I figure out the trick when I watch it... Does that mean I have to buy the DVD anyway if I want to perform it or it's stealing? I'm not being smart, I just want to know as it's not something I've thought about before...

James

For sure there are plenty of folks who saw the video, knew the move and are now doing it, same goes for Sinful...and others tricks. This is one reason I'm hesitant releasing any of my tricks online.

johnny

Pay up, because as far as I know I don't publically perform anything that I don't own or invented myself without any past knowledge of it beforehand. I'll admit to playing around with things, but except for my very beginings before I thought about things like ethics, I haven't performed others stuff... I may play but I'll buy it before performing it, or just keep it logged as something I want to buy in the future and leave it alone.


It doesn't even matter. Whether or not I or others have stolen material has no effect on whether what you are doing is stealing.


No that isn't stealing.

If however, later on you find out it was created before you, than you should get permission before you publish or release anything to other magicians.

Personally I am fine with independently creating things used in private performance, but only if you actually created it even if you only heard about it... if the plot was introduced to you, and then you come up with a method and whatnot, you still need permission from creator)


You live in the world that you make... if you want to cheat and steal from people and claim that it's alright, then you can make whatever personal choices you want.... if you ignore what others say and what is right, its not like we can stop you, however don't come back with "well if you don't like it don't watch" or whatever else... at least do us the favor of being silent about it and not bragging.

Every magician worth his salt should be able to figure out any demo video that is accurately filmed. If we followed your advice then *no magic* would be sold that had a demo video.

Personally I have not ever seen any demo video that I can not figure out the basic methodology from, does that give me the right to perform all effects I see without buying them?

Please tell me how your way will help magic(and not just yourself), how does magic benefit from the creators getting disrespected and ripped off?

Let's say Geir has 10 awesome effects, and this was the first of them. He comes on the board and see's people stealing his effect because of the demo video that *he provided* and showing no remorse.

How does magic benifit by him getting mad and not releasing further effects?

In your world, we have a market with no original creations because the creators know what an un-ethical and stealing bunch magicians are, and a bunch of newbie magicians performing whatever demo they get their hands on because they have no respect for creators....


-daegs

I found that line the most unsettling.

You did the move well. If you'd like to do it brilliantly, I'd encourage you to find, study, and _acknowledge_ the artists who have breathed life into this, and all of the effects that each of us cherish.

It is, to me, the difference between being a musician who performs a Rossini overture, and a guy who can "play the Lone Ranger Song".


-jjg

Daegs
Ellusionist shows a old idea with an old sleight that everyone knows and you're expecting me to buy it? Not buying this has nothing to do with lack of ethics

Thanks Yfirum at least there's someone on my side.

Daegs when I am reading your posts I really have to laugh. I guess you don`t believe it yourself. I cannot hear this "thief nonsense" anymore. You must be very decent and so good always to ask for permission and buying the tricks. I can picture you on the phone trying to contact Sankey or Malone for their permission. If you are a baseball player and see a new way of hitting the ball with your bat, enabling it to become a home run, I would like to see any batter in the league who says "sorry I cannot use it. I didn`t invent it and didn`t get permission".
If I see a new take on a double lift or whatever, I don`t go buy it, if I can do it by myself. You don`t even need to try and explain that you always do. I don`t believe you, no matter how often you repeat it. This would be like telling "look people, I never jaywalk" or even better " I have never lied in my life". Who is going to believe this??? A four-year-old maybe. You are good at calling others here thieves. So you have to live with this post too.

Folks, how does this sort of commentary encourage others to invest the time and effort to publish or market their works? Or even to show ideas at a convention to get feedback?

It's one thing to hold that a work is trivial or an obvious combination of things which are prior art. Okay that's an opinion. Where do you draw a line on that for yourself though?

Jonathan, basically I agree with you. It is just the way some peole here are always trying to show how decent they are and they are quick at calling others "thief" or whatever. I wasn`t even meant by Daegs`post, but I felt I had to say something. The key word in your post is "prior art". I guess you know what I mean.

Are children who grab things from each other thieves?

Not sure how to label a large body of people in the magic community, but I don´t think we can credit them with much maturity.

At what age should we begin to hold them responsible for their actions?

How many years should someone have in magic before we expect them to have learned some basic sense, decency, and respect?

Stealing other's material is not the same thing as Jaywalking. I'm not claiming to never commit any sins or that I'm perfect.

I *can* say, however, that I've never stolen money from anyone, robbed any stores, I've never commited fraud, I've never stolen someone's car, and I do not use other people's material that I don't have permission for (and there are many others that don't too).

Is it really that hard to believe that? I personally could probably go for 24 hrs straight without repeating a trick with all the things that *I OWN*, so why when performing for <2 hours would I ever need to steal material??!

I'm not saying I never lie, or that I never jaywalk. I am saying I don't steal... Period.



The problem is that you consider stealing people's hard work as the same thing as jaywalking. It is stealing someone else's property. I know there is a hole in U.S. IP law, and I can deal with you stealing material being legal, however it is not right, it is not ethical, and you are a thief if you steal material!!!

What's going on here. When I posted this I didn't think people would be talking about something totally different. I just posted it to see what you guys think of it. Daegs you have to give me a break. Because one I have never performed it for people. Maybe my brother but that donst count. I have should him so much magic he doesn't even care anymore. So let's stop talking about, "oh I'm a theif" because I watched a video. And, "your a theif if you do this and you have to do this to do his trick" and all that crap. All right?