No 5

I have to agree with you rasmus

From someone that purchased this direct from Bob at the Blackpool convention several years ago along with the excellent breather Crimp Booklet all I have to say is

Typical Cameron Francis Post, funny how Craig is always going on about crediting the creator and let’s not forget the Wayne Dobson / Jeff McBride issue from last year , that was spoken about at Magic Live, as they say people in Glass Houses should not throw stones !

Can picture cards be used with NWP?

But I didn't think of my mother! You've just lost a possible customer . ... JAN

Then I am one of these three... Jan

And I'm another. I'm surprised there isn't a Bash & ******** forum here...it would at least allow people to take their seemingly endless hatred and superiority into a closed off space so the rest of us can speculate and wonder about things without calling people liars and thieves based on supposition and ignorance.

At some point, in the future, no doubt when he's stopped feeling ill reading all the rubbish written about him and his character, Craig Petty will probably drop by and settle some questions.

And if he does, he'll be more of a gentleman then I, as I'd just leave you all to squabble and bicker until you passed out.

Steph

I now own it and even before the crediting/rip-off issue came about I think a lot of people, myself included are upset about how the description of the trick in the ad and in the trailer is very obviously on purpose written and edited to be misleading to make the trick look way better and cleaner than it actually is because if people really knew what they were getting I honestly don't think they would sell that many dvds.

It is a decent trick even though I think there are a lot cleaner and more amazing prediction type effects out there that can be done with a ordinary deck of card but in the case of RED I think people just feel that RED is far from what they thought they were buying.

I understand that some trailers must be edited as long as it is done on the purpose to show us what our audience will experience when we are performing the trick because some sleights, moves, ditches and clean ups can be hard to do on camera because you can not really use missdirection, but in the case of RED almost half of what is happening and what the audience will see and experience is left out of the description and from the trailer.

Imagine that I was marketing a new peek wallet and made an ad for it and a trailer that said and showed this.

-A person thinks about ANY person that they care about and means a lot to them, they never say it out loud.
-You know who that person is.

In a way that is true, but I just did not care to mention that they have to write it down on a piece of paper and then I have to put it in my wallet that I then have to close it and put away. It is not really a bad trick, it can actually be a strong trick but it is probably not what the costumers thought they were buying and marketing like this is just not fair or good if you want to keep your costumers happy and buy products from you in the future.

I find a lot of hypocrisy in this thread. Last year I pointed out that Lennart Green's Stolen Cards was in fact Nick Trost's Rainbow Miracle. I got crucified for stating this yet I produced a rather lengthy bibliography of the Green effect that actually had its origin in an effect by Mel Stover. Nick Trost obtained permission of Nick Trost to create Rainbow Miracle, yet, apparently on the Green effect, while Trost is credited, there is no indication that Lennart Green sought permission tocreate his effect that IS Rainbow Miracle with one minute difference at the display.

Harry Lorayne has been crucified for stating over and over again that the Green Angle Separation IS his Great Divide.

There was no uproar at all when I pointed out that Sankey's Astral Projection is actually Harbin's "Kings Kards" from The Jinx and NOWHERE does Sankey credit Harbin.

JB Magic put out an effect they claimed to be original, yet it actually was an effect by Mort Rudnick and it was printed in Apocalypse. It's the effect where a two coins are placed under two cards a distance from one another and when the cards are lifted, both coins are under the same card. The method is EXACTLY the same as Mort Rudnick's. I posted about this a few years ago, and where was the righteous indignation?

So, have we come to the point where we are selective about whom to crucify?

There have even been magicians here DEFENDING a known manufacturer that steals and makes cheap knock offs of effects and stiffs buyers!

Unbelieveable!

For the record, I don't own either NWP or Red. I perform Fr. Cyprian's Solid Gold Prediction and I'm quite happy with it. So, if someone would KINDLY enlighten me as to why certain people get the nails and crown of thorns while others are untouchable, I would appreciate the enlightenment.

Lastly, IF Craig Petty knowingly lifted Bob King's effect, then yes, shame on him, but, he has not responded yet, so maybe hold off on the death sentence until the guy has a chance to respond?

Vlad

At last.....couldnt understnd all of the hype over Stolen Cards because I had been using Rainbow Miracle myself for a few years and it was essentially the sme, yet very few magicians seemed to have heard of rainbow miracle in my limited experience.

Add me to the record of people who actually own NWP. Purchased it many moons ago from Hank Lee.

I have made my thoughts clear on how RED has been promoted and also raised the question how close RED was to existing effects.

However there are now members saying "Oh Craig must have know about NWP " with no evidence to support this . To those who have raised the question

Is NWP widely available and well known ?

Mr King use to sell these direct or at conventions , due to poor health he does not any more . NWP is sold by 1 dealer , there has been no mass distribution of the effect via the main dealers.

Putting Brainwave in to a Google search : After looking through the first 9 pages of listings , I saw links to standard BW , the Cardshark Phoenix deck and a few other variations BUT not one link to NWP

Going over to the excellent Denis Behr magic database and searching "brainwave" 22 versions mentioned - NONE NWP

So let us be clear - NWP is not a well known effect . I can honestly say I did not know of this deck . My large collections of books which I use to create effects provided no help.

Unless you have a met a person who bought the effect , normal due diligence may not have found it by asking well known magicians if they have seen similar or searching the net directly

Why the Café is a great place to check out originality . A overview of the effect with a question "Is this new" would have led to replies about NWP

Andrew

Good points Andrew

Think its legitimate to ask the question around similarities between these two effects and whether its appropriate to miss a key spectator process from the demo.

I don't think its legitimate to question Craigs integrity though until we hear from him on this.

Bearing in mind how busy he is likely to be and the fact his young one has been in hospital a bit of patience is required.

Okay, I was obviously exaggerating. More than three people own Red and/or NWP. My point was that most people in this thread criticizing the effect and bashing Craig don't own Red and are making huge assumptions about his ethics. Like I said, I don't own either effect, so I can't comment on them. Nor did I.

Not sure what a "typical Cameron Francis post" is but coming from JackMagic, I assume the comment is chock full of love and warmth.

I own both Bob King's New Wave Prediction and Red by Craig Petty.
Red is EXACTLY the same effect and method as NWP.

I liked that a lot... Jan

This should not be sold by Mr. Petty, bad form if not outright theft

I am not sure why Cameron is getting all High and Mighty about this!

I always say support the original Creator and not the Rip Off merchant, hopfully he can now see very clearly who's Creation was the orignal

(changing the Name and re Packaging as a DVD does not make it Orignal !)

Nor does it make it a rip off...unless the person who put it out, put it out already knowing of the existence of the previous effect...and didn't care.

No one knows if this is the case.

I imagine Cameron took offence to your post (seeing as he quoted directly from it), and he also made his position on the whole matter pretty succinct...therefore it's you who is getting high and mighty Jack.

Seems a lot of faces are turning (here it comes) RED over this effect.

Probably due to all the screaming foul every other post.