We have just renewed our PRS for Music Licence in the UK. For Children's Entertainers there are two categories: those just using what they call "background music", i.e. playing a CD/tape whilst the kids arrive or are having tea; and "featured music" which covers Entertainers using music for a mobile disco or directly as backing tracks for puppetry, singing a copyright song as part of your act etc.

This year we have downgraded to "background music" as I've re-worked all our Cabaret Marionette tracks to my own compositions or Public Domain pieces, (i.e. Edvard Greig 'Hall of the Mountain King' for my Dancing Skeleton Marionette.) http://www.youtube.com/user/knausspiano

We no longer advertise Disco as being part of our Entertainment. The only pieces I or Sue sing are public domain stuff like Old MacDonald etc.

Costs: Here is a PDF from PRS for you.
http://www.prsformusic.com/SiteCollectio......riff.pdf

If you are not Licensed and have a website I can only warn you of the penalties this could incur. The PRS have a very, very active investigation department and they search the web with great tenacity. I am just posting this here to warn non licensed entertainers of how tenacious PRS are. I'm not wanting to debate with anyone over what is the Law in the UK. To illustrate what they are like I was recently having an exhaust (muffler) part fitted to a car in Macclesfield UK. I got chatting to the lads doing the job and they told me they all have to now contribute a few pounds a year to be able to play Radio 1 while they are working. The PRS had caught them broadcasting unlicensed music on the premises !! The owner was threatened with a substantial fine! Some entertainers think that music at private parties does not need a licence. Forget it! I've debated this with 'em at the PRS till I was blue in the face! That just simply covers music played by guests and organisers and NOT US as professional entertainers.

Here is the PRS Website: http://www.prsformusic.com

If I stay on Magic Café this time I'll be posting a few free MP3 downloads sometime for Kids Entertainers to use on websites. The last one I did years ago of a fairground organ effect was well appreciated by circus type performers.

All the best to you.
Tony

http://www.pianisttonygayle.co.uk

Tony, I spoke to someone from the PRS recently, and he assured me that you do NOT need a license if:
You are playing copyright music in someone's home.
You are playing copyright music in a premises which holds a music license from PRS already.
This pretty much covers all of my work. If I'm at a venue that doesn't have a PRS license, I'll just play my own songs, and we don't miss the other stuff!
I feel sorry for the guys at that garage, though. Of course, the garage is meant to be paying the fee, but they've just told the boys it's up to them if they want a radio. Evidently any "place of work" such as this requires such a license.
I'm curious which shows you do that are not covered by PRS licenses already in place? Just about every venue already has this.
Anyhoo, Tony, welcome back to the Café. I've enjoyed your recent posts, and if your an ex-banee, then may I hope to read some more acerbic posts soon? The Magic Café is a very dull place without dissent.
Potty

As I said Potty, I'm not up for debate on this one and just merely give links to PRS. What the individual does is now entirely up to him or her. When you can give me printed evidence on the PRS site bearing out what your contact at PRS said then I'll question my payment to them. Until then I'll tow the line with 'em.

Dissent? No, the old days here in this Forum were sheer hell. I'd not wish that back onto anyone. I had the "pleasure" of hosting a private forum after I'd left here. Within a couple of weeks I'd pressed the destruct button and scuttled it! No names and no ill feelings to the guys involved though. Kids entertainers are highly opinionated, endlessly self-promoting individuals. Many are convinced their opinions are without question. Too many such egos in a Forum and it explodes. All that matters to us now is the phone ringing and the cash flow continuing.

Regards - Tony.

"Kids entertainers are highly opinionated, endlessly self-promoting individuals. Many are convinced their opinions are without question. Too many such egos in a Forum and it explodes"
Hmm...I think you can apply that description to a great deal many other folk as well! But for me, having strong opinions from different sides opens up the possiblility of proper debate - albeit sometimes it might gain more of a conversational level. I think some folks get upset at certain attitudes that seem to be expressed, because they misunderstand someone else's sense of humour, culture, or whatever, and I see no real harm in that. But, it does generate some very heated exchanges. Hey, Oprah and Jeremy Kyle take note: "angry magicians available for work." I mean, it's harmless, isn't it? Though I love dissent, I also love truth. And I love the fact that so often both go hand in hand.
;)

Points I have previously challenged PRS on:

They state: "Note 4: PRS for Music does not make a charge for private family parties*, such as wedding receptions, christening
parties or domestic birthday parties (see full definition)."

Full definition = "private family parties means functions of a purely
domestic or family nature, such as wedding receptions,
christening parties or domestic birthday parties, when:
- attendance of guests is by personal invitation only (except
for staff, performers, etc.)
- the function is held in a privately-booked room, not at that
time open to the general public
- there is no form of charge made for admission
- there is no financial gain to the function’s organiser or host
(eg the person hiring the venue)"

Their reply each and every time has been - but you as a paid Professional do need to be Licensed. These clauses only apply to private individuals - i.e. the function organisers (parents). If you broadcast Copyright Music as part of a Profession you must hold a Licence.

Regarding Rooms already having Licences. Have taken this up with them too. Reply = both must pay - venue and performers as both are hiring out services for gain.
So this implies they are charging rooms for allowing Copyright Music to be played and charging Performers in addition for the actual act of playing the Music.

Let's keep this thread open shall we? More input from others please . . . but please be aware of the searchability of this forum.


Tony

Tony, I was SPECIFICALLY told that I would only need a license if I were playing or performing copyright material in unlicensed venues. And SPECIFICALLY told that licensed venues and private parties are no problem. Of course, these are easy goalposts to shift, and I'm sure it's quite possible that PRS will decide to try to grab a bit more cash in this cynical way, let's hope not.

I too had a call from the man at PRS and when I explained what I do he said the same as Potty has been saying. As for policing it, it's easy to send send someone to a place of work where they think they might be playing music, ie garage, shop, bar etc but how are they going to turn up to a house with a kid having a birthday party?
I think I'm safe.

Thanks guys for your thoughts.

I've been in long (taped by them and me) conversation this morning with PRS and what you say is absolutely correct. I am now in the process of negotiating back the full fee I paid to them last year.

It seems we were targeted by a rogue bully PRS investigator. He caught us at a bad time as we were going through severe family problems with one of our relatives. We paid up to basically shut the PRS up and get them off our backs. We were also preparing to spend most of December out of the UK and due to leave.

So - If you are entertaining in a private house absolutely no licence is needed.

If you are entertaining in a PRS Licensed Premises then absolutely no personal operator's licence is needed.

Many village halls however, unless they put on their own music events, are not licensed, same I guess would apply to scout halls and suchlike. So what music you play in these is down to the individual. Leisure Centres, Hotels, Community Centres I would say without doubt would already hold a PRS Licence.

We must all decide our own course of action. Mine will be that I simply am not paying any more to them. I will also be writing a full account to Equity. I can only guess that these PRS investigators / enforcers are on some sort of commission (?) who knows.

Maybe the lesson to be learned is to use internet - websites, YouTube etc. to your advantage as entertainers, but to be aware that a whole host of other people can see you too. As long as you've nothing to hide then this is no problem of course.

Tony.

I'm glad you sorted that out, Tony. I think you'll find most ALL village halls have a PRS license, though you may well be right about Scouts and Guides, I'm not sure. I know there is always a sign above the village hall door that says it's licensed for music and performing; at least, every village hall I can think of.
I'd say that almost certainly the PRS investigators are either on commission, or at least have a strong motivation to get as much cash in as possible.

I've already written to Equity now, and await their reply.

Here is another interesting link:

http://www.thirdsector.co.uk/news/Articl......ntinues/

Tony.

I always check with the Village Halls and Hotels etc I perform in and if there is any doubt I use royalty free music. I always make sure I take the cd case with me after being hassled by a PRS rep when I performed to Arthur Stead's music on my Ipod - it's pretty clearly stated there. He said he'd never come across it before (is it rare in the UK?)