When performing the Miser's Dream, do you walk amoung the audience to produce the coins? If so, while in the middle of the audience, how do you watch your angles so as not to reveal the coin(s) in your hand? Finally, do you think the thumb palm or Downs Palm is more angle proof. (I use Down's palm most of the time.)
Thanks!
Jim

Yes I walk amoungst the crowd. I hold my hand close to my body and my patter and movement keeps the misdirection going. Calling attention to the person who is about to be the next "victim" with a coin in their hair,ear, etc is one way. I use the Downs and the thumb palm but use the crotch palm the most when out in the crowd. With the coin in the crotch palm you can bend your middle finger in as your fore finger points it encloses the coin. Turning your palm down as you point hides it even more. I haven't been caught yet and did the Miser's dream for about 6 years and then (1991-1997ish) then came back to it recently. Still works. Again I think your misdirection with words and poiinting help cover it a lot.
-Good Luck
-vk

I do it the same as Victorkent except I use a finger palm instead. The fingers being slightly curled around the coin makes a good hidden pocket.

Thanks guys. I will experiment with producing from the finger palm per Dynamike's suggestion. I don't know the "crotch palm" victorkent, but will look it up in Bobo. It sounds good.
Thanks again.
Jim

There are almost as many variations of the Miser's Dream as there are magicians who do it.
So there has got to be one that is angle-proof for you.
I go into the crowd and use the thumb palm for one coin, with the stack in the hand holding the container.

Peter,
have you ever posted your full routine?

I wanted to add one addition to the topic if I may. I have seen sooooo many performers do the Miser's Dream and do it badly...less than 10% looked like they gave it much thought or practice. The loaded just "hanging there" looking un-natural palming hand, the rush to get the coin, the lack of creativity in finding the coin, the same patter and routines, and above else the lack of purpose. I think a lot of people do it because it is relatively cheap to do and relatively easy (in regards to manipulation : though done well so that it looks really good -not so easy in regards to manipulation.). Even the choice of music or lack there of makes a difference. It seems most of you posting have thought it out (and hopefully practice) ...cudos. And it's great to see James thinking it through. (You are probibly amoungst the 10%...any way to get the other 90% to read this site?)
-vk

I can't decide If I should use a misers dream or just keep my billard ball routine.
Any thoughts?

Tough call flourish dude.

I like the billiard balls and have a lot of respect for those who can do it well. Test them out adn see what the responses are.

good luck,

j.

VK,
Thank you for your kind words and encouragement.
I also want to thank Peter M. for educating me about miser's dream. It certainly was a hole in my magical education, which I am happy to have filled. I must say that the most important thing that helped me pull off this routine while learning it was in how to properly hold the coins in the left hand inside the pale. I had been holding the stack of coins in the wrong way making it very hard to properly release the coins when needed. McBride's 1st manipulation video shows the proper way to hold the coins.
Flourish Dude,
My feeling re: billiard ball vs. miser's dream for what it's worth is that miser's dream allows you to involve the audience in the magic more than billiard balls, at least as tranditionally performed. So for a children's audience, we want to keep them involved in the magic as much as possible. Billard balls feels to me more an adult effect where an older audience can appreciate the elegance a ball routine has to offer. This again is only true traditionally speaking. You could, I suppose, stand both effects/routines on their ears to invalidate this analysis. I agree with your unstated supposition that both billiard balls and miser's dream are close enough in their effect that it should be one or the other and not both.
Jim
PS: maybe you do miser's dream and the rabbit puppet does Billiard Balls!

Hi, Here’s a tip for you.
A lot of the angle problems working the misers dream can be overcome simply by attention to your inner script (the script that is non visual but you are following in your mind) the most common inner script for misers dream is Oh look something there reach out grab it “oh look it’s a coin “ drop it in the bucket………… then spot another coin behind someone’s ear for example, grab, show, drop in bucket and so on.

The key is once you have produced the first coin DO NOT DUMP IT but rather see your next coin then bring your hand back dump (apparently) and then immediately reach for the next coin. This really reduces the time that you are holding out a palmed coin Also all the time you are palming the hand is in motion Either toward the bucket or from the bucket to the apparent target.
Phillip

Flourish Dude,
Because my full Miser's Dream routine is fluid, and keeps changing with the venue, etc., I have never published the whole thing.
But, in my Showtime column in the Linking Ring magazine of April, 2000, I have one of the best (he said, modestly <G>) closings for the Miser's Dream I have ever come across (Miser's Dream Giveaway).
In the Octorber, 2000 issue, I have a follow-up column, Miser's Bills Givewaway.
Both of these are designed for kids' shows.

As for your doing either billiard balls or miser's dream, I don't know your billiard-ball routine so I don't know where the conflict is (assuming there is one).
While they both involve pulling things out of the air (but we do that a LOT!), they can be routined so differently that there should be no trouble in doing both.

However, Flourish Dude, your comment about my not having published the Miser's Dream has just planted the seed for a Linking Ring column!
Thanks.

I use Wally Dean’s routine for the “Misers Dream” as published in Bruce Elliot’s “Classic Secrets of Magic”. No pail is used rather a stemmed wine glass is used to toss the produced coins in. Coins are not dropped as in the standard pail method but are actually produced and tossed into the glass. Holding the stem of the glass is all the cover needed to hide the Downs Palmed stack of coins. I produce only 11 coins.

I do the BB routine in every show. I use 2" Finiki ball (sp?) I call them ennie, mennie minnie and moe (spelling) the fastest balls in the Midwest. I start off by saying the 1st ball ennie, was my very first helper. The first day I got him I started to teach him some tricks. (Do a few jumps from this hand to the other etc.) Then I say your wondering how can he be so fast? Well that’s because he has a helper mennie. This goes on through all four balls each set doing a trick before the next ball is produced. Once all four are produced I say as quick as they come even faster they vanish. Then they each vanish until I get to the end and moe keeps coming back (much like Dan Harlens Routine) If you have seen his routine ”Herman” from pack small play big all purpose show you'll know the general feel for the routine.
Using 2" ball I have a little trouble with the angles. As always looking to improve my show I thought that maybe a Good fun Misers to open with instead of my balls?
Peter I don't have those mags do you know of a place I could read them online? Or you could practice your writing for your future article and I'll proof it :0) he, he.
Puppet and BB hum thats sound really hard to work out. I'll have to think about it but it does sound interesting but it may be hard with 1 hand. Puppet and a sponge ball routine thats sound fun I see the ball from puppets mouth to be very funny.

PBJones,
Thanks for the great tip! OF course, don't toss the latest coin produced until right before you're ready to produce the next one, thus the "hiding time" is reduced. Great idea.
Jim

I always start with two coins in my hand instead of one. When I grab my first one, the audience can clearly see me throw the coin in the bucket. I perform the manipulation with the second coin.

Thank you, Dynamike. Another great tip.
Jim

I always start with two coins in my hand instead of one. When I grab my first one, the audience can clearly see me throw the coin in the bucket.


Hi,
Actually this is the traditional method.
To start with several coins palmed usualy in downs palm. I no longer start this way,But I used to downs palm 4 - 6 coins to start producing then one at a time from the right hand then continuing as required for the rest of the coins.I stopped using this method because I like to produce the first coin magicaily using Ben Harris silverdust production (a terrific coin production wher both hnds are seen clearly empty) and some audience partisipation.
Phillip

PB:
I like producing 5 half dollars this way from the Downs palm. Only problem with this is that the coins tend to talk, as I slide the bottom-most coin into the appearance position. Anyone have that "talking coin" problem?
Jim
Harry:
I am working on a coins to glass routine where I use a wine glass and hold it in a way to cover the Downs palmed coins. But that only requires 5 coins in Downs palm. Where are you getting the other 6 coins, Harry? You really are magically!
Lastly, I use Kennedy half dollars (you can buy them brand new with great edges from teh US mint for about 85 cents each with the shipping) but I have wondered if palming coins might be better. Does anyone use palming coins?
Jim

I noticed how my coins talks also. So when the coins talk, I talk also. No one ever noticed the coins talking because I over talked them. And I just use two coins, making them talk one time only. Another way is to use music with the act.