Hi everyone!



I've never had the opportunity to do a magic show for a church!



If you've done so, I'm a little curious of your experience!



Did you encounter anybody that viewed magic as that "of the devil", and how did you respond to this!



Steve

Well Steve..where do I start? This has been my market for the past ten out 24 years of performing. I am actually a "Christian Illusionist". Almost contradictory...huh? Yes, depending on the denomination you perform in it can be considered black arts. We however, always strived to convey what we do is illusion...just trickery. I would be more than happy to email respond with you or anyone about my personal experiences as a Christian and an illusionist. I will tell you that it is a great UNDERsaturated market and we have done very well financially...actually better than most performing magicians out there. Big misconception is that churches do not have money. Well, you all keep thinking that so I can keep my job!

Sounds like this is really a good area for you to contribute too.



By the way Billy, I belong to The Fellowship of Christian Magicians.

Prior to buying Dock Haley Gospel Magic Co. I traveled full time as a Christian Illusionist. I still present week-end programs around the country and do two or three overseas tours a year.



There are those who view Gospel magic as something from Satan. This is where we need to be educated on the meaning of various words in the Bible that are translated into the word "magic". So we can enlighten them, and assure them that what we do is not of the devil. I always make it clear in my programs that what I am doing is Sleight of Hand or Object Lessons, not something connected in any way to satanic practices.



There have been those who have written me expressing their dislike of "Magic" being used in the Church. I always prayerfully reply to them. I find it is usually a matter of misunderstading the meaning of words. However there are some who do not want to hear the truth of what we do. It’s as if they have said "Don’t confuse me with the facts, I’ve already decided what I’m going to believe". You will never convince them so don’t waste your breath. God knows your intentions and people will be blessed by your efforts.



In HIS service,

Steve Varro

International FCM President

EXCELLENT word of advice Steve! I also believe there is some material floating around out there on Magic and the Bible. If not, I wrote a brochure on the subject some years ago that discusses the words and meanings within Bible context. I would be happy to share that with anyone interested.

I’ve been doing gospel magic and ventriloquism for over 25 years. There is occasionally some of the concern you mention. Oddly, it is not from the ultra-conservative Baptists,etc, as some might think (Baptists LOVE gospel magic, vent, puppets, etc.)



A simple line that I have found that works well is:

"I want to make it clear that I do not practice nor am I in any way involved with witchcraft, sorcery or black magic. Everything that you will see me do is based on the physical laws that God has put in place on this earth. Just as Jesus used parables--stories that didn’t necessarily take place in reality--to illustrate the truths of the kingdom of God, I am using sleight-of-hand and illusion to accomplish the same purpose."



I once (and only once) had a man who wasn’t satisfied by that. After the program, he approached me and said that he thought even the ventriloquism was deceptive, because it was creating an illusion that wasn’t real. I asked him how he felt about Christian films. He said they were fine. I explained that they, too were an illusion--a bunch of single frame photos being rolled past the projector lens to create movement. And the sounds and speech weren’t coming from the screen, but from the speakers, creating the ILLUSION that the words were coming from the mouths of the actors--the SAME illusion as ventriloquism, fooling the ears and eyes, and the SAME principles of sleight of hand and misdirection. He thought about that for a minute and decided I was okay after all. What really bugged him about it was that I was 13, and I had won him over!



_________________

Scott F. Guinn

Great Scott! It's Magic!

I perform for both secular and Christian venues and I enjoy both.

My main focus is to present a FAMILY show.

I have yet to be personally confronted regarding the preceived 'satanic' relationship to my performances. (Of course, you never know what someone might be thinking...)

I always present magic as comedy or a object lesson and never have had a problem.

Sometimes people will say that Magic or Ventriloquism is wrong because it is deceptive. I disagree. There is NO deception involved. We are saying that we are going to do sleight of hand, and then we do it. Now if I say I have super natural powers and then do sleight of hand, I’m being deceptive.



Besides, what makes us think that all deception is wrong? For example. What about the football player who fakes a pass and then runs in for a touchdown? Or the use of contact lenses to make people think you don’t need glasses, or the use of a wig or makeup? And then there is that little device that many have in their homes that turns the lights on at 8pm to "decieve" the thieves into thinking that someone is home? All of these items are a form of deception, but none of them are wrong or evil. It’s not the item, it’s the intention! What is the intention of the magician or ventriloquists? If it’s to entertain or inspire, then it is not wrong. Again, It’s not the item, it’s the intention." Just my thoughts on the subject.



In HIS service,

Steve Varro

Steve V. is right. We should not be intimidated by those who have knee-jerk reactions to deception. Magic is an art and art is deception. The painting is not a real mountain or stream. Jesus told parables that were stories from His imagination. After His resurrection, Jesus walked with two disciples on the road to Emmaus. After His conversation, "And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further." (Luke 24:28) He pretended to want to go on. He let them "talk Him into" coming to their house. Remember Joseph who put the cup in Benjamin's food sack. When his soldiers brought them back, he pretended to be a magician who used the cup for divination. Remember also that Joseph is one of the very few men in the Bible who has no faults listed against him.

Thank you everyone for responding to my post!



I really appreciate the comments coming from such a wide variety of experience!





Sincerely,

Steve Landavazo

When I was reading these posts, it made me think of one time only that someone was turned off and walked out.



I had already done my magic, and he did not leave, but when I introduced Johnny, my vent figure, he did not say anything, but got up and walked out. I learned later that he did not approve of me using Johnny. He was an older minister, and was one of my best friends, and prayer warriors.



So I talked with him, and I don’t think that he ever accepted me using a figure, but we continued to be friends.



In all my years of doing Gospel Magic, I have always been accepted as I am there to entertain, but my first objective is to help the people see what Christ can do in their lives.



I do dramatic Bible Stories, with all my tricks, and it has a running story throughout the program.



I am like the others, books are great. For you can find so much in them and for the cost of trick.



As to the cost of a book, there is no limit to the tricks that you can perfect from them. Also as to the lecture notes, I have binders of lectures from my first beginning at conventions at Winona Lake, Ind. etc. They are priceless.



When I got into magic, I did not have magic stores to go to, and I was in an area where we did not see large magic shows. But I met several friends and through their help and mentoring I began to grow in the magic arts.



Steve, this is a great site, and I am spending a lot of time reading in it.



Charles Cagle

Thanks, I appreciate that.

Magic in the church is a great tool to visually illustrate spiritual principles. I’m an ordained Baptist minister and part-time professional magician. I’ve been doing magic shows in churches since my very first show at age eight. I know several full time professional magicians who do nothing other than church shows. It’s their full time ministry.



As for those who would say that magic is evil or ’of satan,’ I would say to them that they are simply misinformed. The "magicians" in the Bible are simply not the same thing as what we are doing today.



I’ve only had one experience where someone had a problem with the magic. Once I explained it to her, she was okay with it. My father and grandfather were both Baptist ministers and have always encouraged my magic. The congregation where I serve is all aware of my use of magic and as far as I know, nobody has a problem with it.



I think that as a guest speaker using magic, I can build a rapport/relationship with my audience in a way that other speakers cannot. With the interaction and fun that goes on during the show, I win the right to be heard on a deeper level later on when I share the message. Magic is also a great way to visually illustrate many spiritual principles.

We had an opportuinity to spend 3 Wonderful evenings with a great Christian Magician, Felix Snipes and it was absolutely awsome. We have somewhere near 125 decisions over the 3 days. It is awsome when you can do what you love and it brings people to the saving grace of Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.

Hi,
As I have posted elsewhere, I am not at all religious, However, I have/do perform quite often for church groups adult/children and mixed family shows, Protestant, Baptists, Catholics, Jehovahs Witnesses and a couple of new Christian type groups. I have never had any objections to the effects that I perform even card tricks. I did have a boy of about 7 say to me at a birthday party that he did not mind what balloon model he had as long as it was not a sword as he was a pacifist
phillip

Scott, Very interesting post there!

Don't get me wrong guys, they are all excellent, I just really like the way Scott said that about films also being an illusion

I have been thinking about trying to do shows for churches but have never really delved into it much.

I am a Close up card guy. I'm not sure about over there, but in England, many places have a coffee after the service. I was thinking about attending and offering to show some things but would have no idea how to start.
I have performed many times but never in a church community.

What is the best way to introduce your magic into the church community?

Baz - it all depends on what you're hoping to do. With my 'ministers' hat on, I would of course say that the best way to introduce your magic into the church community is to introduce yourself into the church community!

More specifically, it depends whether you're looking for a purely 'entertainment' or a
'teaching' performance. If the former, then contact anyone named in a newsletter or magazine as the church's social committee co-ordinator or, failing that, the minister and ask who to contact. (Most of us don't have time to organize the social programmes ourselves, but we can generally point you to the person who does.) Also, you'll probably pick up from the minister whether or not this particular church is likely to be open to magical entertainment. Or indeed to any entertainment.

If you're looking for a more 'teaching' side then try the church's youth leader (if they have one!). Since your area is cards, there are limits to what you'll be able to do with younger children (other styles may go down well) I've found that our youth group relate well to card magic and other close-up, and I'm sure that they're not unusual in this.

If you're already a member of a local church then why not try performing after the service for some people you already know? If you can relate an effect to the sermon, so much the better.

If you're not already a member, then just one word of warning about after-church coffee. Don't drink it. A cartoon in the
'Church Times' once carried the caption 'It was a personal best, and equal to the Deanery record. 185 cups from a 100g jar'. There are exceptions (including all the churches I've ever served in, just in case they're reading...) but be careful!

Thanx for that Nick
Over here, we're more tea drinkers (Personally, I prefer beer bud not in a church) and the tea aint too bad, I see em make it

I will get more involved with the church and go from there, I havn't been for about 2 years but there's always time to start again

thanx again

Many churches just want entertainment that is wholesome and family oriented.

Others, like Scott's comment, want Gospel Magic. As long as you understand what they are expecting, Steve, you'll be fine.

I usually say at the opening of my "show" that "The presentation of illusion is a minor performing art, but it is an art none the less. And like other arts,it can be used to give glory to life's Lord."