I need help with an application for the Vanishing block effect similar to a die block. The block could represent sin and the vanish represents forgiveness (all gone) but what can the wooden cabinet be that would be logical? Here is the type of block that I have.
http://www.magicgoods.com/products/see-t......nish.php

Thanks for your suggestions.

The cabinet could represent your earthly body. That as long as one is full of sin, the block, we are un-worthy and imperfect. We might try to hide our sins by moving it from one side to the other. But god sees all and we cannot hide our sins from it. It is only through the asking of god's forgiveness that we can make the sin vanish.

Or something like that.

I would have the block represent SIN.
The "sliding" of the block = our efforts to conceal our sin, and pretend we have no sin.
but "he who says he has no sin, makes God a liar" and "be certain your sins will find you out" (click sound while hiding the block reveals the hidden sin)
But Jesus promises that "if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive our sins, and cleans us from all unrighteousness" and He will "remove our sins as far as the East is from the West" and "remember our sins no more" (vanish)
You can easily recognize and look up the specific verses.
Blessings!
Stephon

Master Payne, you surprised me. Thank you both for your good ideas.

Our earthly bodies makes the most logical sense for the effect, so I would run with that. Good call, Payne..

I love the idea to conceal the sins, Stephon.
The emphasis on Scripture is paramount for me. God stuff. I feel Gospel magic is a tool for sharing the Gospel or edifying the Body of Christ. The Gospel is not an excuse to perform magic.

Amen to that! I must confess I abhor most "Gospel" magic effects because they are either non-biblical Theology, or have NO scripture verses in the "patter". THE GOSPEL should be foremost, the STAR of the effect, with the "magic" being used as a visual example only. Too many effects showcase the "trick" or even worse the "magician" with only a weak, ineffective, veneer of "Christian-ese" language to pass it off as legit. Making a message little more than "God loves you so much, He did something cool, and the devil is bad, so be good...and say no to drugs too!" Is NOT the Gospel. Oh, hey...how did I get up here on this "Soap Box"??? Haha, I feel better now anyway.
Merry Christmas Brothers and Sisters in Christ!

I think I assembled the soap box for you, Sir. Hey, it saves me from having to rant on the subject.

In His Service,
CM

I watched a Christian perform "Gospel" magic here locally a few years ago and it blew me away. It changed my whole perspetive of it dramatically. He was performing in church so there as no need to prostelize or evangelize, but what he did as remarkable.

He taught the children about discipleship, and growing in their faith, and discovering who they are within the body of Christ. They all heard that they shouldn't sin, so he taught them what sin was, and why God hated sin. He taught them why it was wrong to lie, to steal, to curse, etc. He taught them about being kind to each other, how to pray, discovering your gifts, obeying your parents, etc. Not once did he pull out some prop to demonstrate how Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead. He didn't take miracles of His and demonstrate it with a magic trick. He never once took a bible story and turned it into a magic routine. He taught life lessons about being a good servant for God, not why we need to be a Christian. His lessons were about preparing the children for Godly servanthood. An hour show packed with messages about discipleship instead of evangelizing. Teaching morals and Christian values rather than preaching to the choir.

I have to admit, it was very refreshing to have seen him perform. Unfortuneately, he passed away a year ago. He changed my whole outlook on how Gospel magic should be performed for children. It's so much more rewarding to hear children afterwards say they learned why God hates sin, or why they should be kind to each other, how to pray, and why we should pray, why it's important to obey our parents, etc. Instead of hearing children say they saw a cool magic trick with a Jesus card disapearing from an envelope, or how a bunch of silks were placed into a bag and then they all turned into a big silk with Jesus' face on it.

Duanne Laflin has a great routine he calls Priority Balls. I have always loved that routine. It doesn't use a single piece of scripture, yet teaches a valuable lesson.

I guess I haven't seen many of these examples that you guys mention. The illusions are definitely a means to an end (The End when it comes to the Gospel). That being said though there seems to be a bias against a trick not being good, but having a good message is all that matters. I don't think mediocre magic is the best way to perform just because it has a message. I believe as an evangelist I have been called to what I do, and that God expects nothing less than my best. Now that being said the glory goes to God not the magician, but this idea that a trick has to have a sermon as a patter to be considered effective is misplaced. Why are you not able to do an effect simply as a great effect, and point back at it later in a Christopher Nolanish way? Obviously there are different styles, and that's great, but we need to see the value in the different styles as well as where they could improve.

Despite my user name, I don't think anyone is advocating mediocre magic. You can have both stunning effects AND a Biblical message. I think that is what brings the most honor to God. My contention was if we are not sharing the Scriptures in a Gospel performance, we are missing an opportunity to share a message from the Word of God. That is where our authority lies, not in our own words.

That said, I don't think every trick needs to have a chapter and verse neatly tied to it, but the eventual goal and message does need to be Scripture.

"Obviously there are different styles, and that's great, but we need to see the value in the different styles as well as where they could improve." Amen!
This forum has been a huge blessing to me for this very reason.

Agee!

There lies a problem with some Gospel magic. Some are not called to teach, or to evangelize, yet they feel they can rely on their talents to do what they call themselves to do instead of using the gifts God has given them to do what God has called them to do.

God will give us the gift to evangelize, and like you Brian, you also have a talent that many enjoy to watch. You have decided that one way you would use God's gift of evangelizing is through something you love to do, which is performing illusions. You don't perform illusions because God called you into it, although God does give us the desire of our hearts when our desires our pure.

The same goes with Gospel magic. Some want to use their talents in magic to do something God has not called them to do, and it ends up looking terrible. The message is weak, the magic is strong, or the message is weak and so is the magic, or the message maybe strong but is lost because the magic was so terrible that that is all people will remember.

Take Tim Tebow as an example. He plays football because he loves playing it, but he doesn't feel compelled to run around evangelizing to everyone on his team or in the league. However, when God wants to use him, he makes himself available as a witness.

Sorry if there are spelling mistakes. I am currently getting ready for a show and typing on my tablet.

Next thing we know, Payne will be joining the FCM and performing at the annual convention!

Terry

I still think that an effect such as the Die Box is best used to convey the account of the resurrection of Christ.

Terry

Ha ha, I know that. I didn't mean that about you. I just meant in general. I figured it was tongue in cheek.

Great points Danny.

Thanks Brian.

One thing I like asking Gospel Magicians is what ther gifts are. I find that very few will ever say, teaching, evangelizing, etc. But, despite that, they feel it's okay to go a head and evangelize, or teach.

I remember when I first worked for the Mustard Seed Ministry in Calgary under Pat Nixon, whom still is a good friend of mine. I was hired as a janitor. Sure I could put a fancy name to it, but tht's what I did. I cleaned up after homeless people. It was a very dirty job, and I will save you the more gore details, especially when cleaning toilets. However, for some strange reason it never bothered me. I was never grossed out, nor did I ever feel overwhelmed by my duties. I did it with gladness in my heart. It was God's gift in me, and not my talents in cleaning toilets that made my job pleasurable and rewarding. At the same time I was being used by God in ways I knew nothing about. Other staff members were being touched by God from watching me, and clients were approaching me more with their issues that the street level staff.

At the same time I met many staff members who attended Bible College because they wanted to be a Pastor. After they got their Pastoral degree they were without a ministry, and what looked like no opportunities in the future to lead a church. I can recall commenting one time that the Mustard Seed was the center of pastoral rejects. Of course I was just kidding based on how many staff members had pastorial degree's. But, one fellow worker told me something one day that made complete sense from a spiritual standpoint. He said, speaking for himself that he never really ever consulted with God in what God wanted him to do. He just one day decided that he would be a Pastor and began a road of education that would qualify him as one. Even though he eventually qualified as a pastor by man's degree, God had other plans for him. At first he was devasted that all those years of education was wasted, but God was able to use his education to put him where God needed him the most. Right beside me cleaning toilets.

Both of us eventually started a street ministry because God opened doors for us, and lead us into that direction. We already had a good repoire with most of the homeless, and God used us to reach many people. It was a humbling experience. We were able to talk with some of the hardcore street people, and go places where others would not dare to tread to help and speak to street people about God's love.

We met many who suffered from addictions who told us that they once believed in God, but they prayed that God would take their addictions away and never did. I can recall many misconceptions many had about God because someone mislead them. Sure, God can take somene's addiction away, but addiction was the result of sin. God requires us to give up our sinnful nature. When we are willing to, God will give us the strength. No temptation shall sieze you except what is common to man, and when we are tempted God will provide a way out so we can stand up under it.

I think I may have strayed from my original point, but when we tread in area's God has not gifted or called us to, we could do more harm than Good.

Danny,

That is an excellent point man. I think this actually helps me understand our other post a little better. You are exactly right. Divorce the fact that someone is a magician for a minute. Let's just say that they are teaching or doing the work of an evangelist. However as you say if they are not gifted in this, then it almost an affront to whatever God has gifted them in. Not only that, it can do serious damage when someone starts throwing in heterodox ideas by accident because they have a "cool story" or example.

In any case an illusionist is in the same boat. Everyone "can" use magic to share the Gospel, but I don't know that everyone should? Maybe that's where I'm going. I don't mean that to sound elitist by any means, but the same reason I wouldn't advise a pastor to turn over his pulpit to just anyone, in the same way it applies to magicians.

Thanks Brian. I understand that I may not always be as clear as I wish I could be when posting comments.