Hi guys,

Recently I bought a http://www.nnmagic.com Dove Harness.
I am having lots of trouble inserting my doves into it.
They always jump out as I'm closing it.
One time he almost killed himself from the wire.

Any tips are appreciated.

Baluk, your doves should be tame enough to put them into a harness before you attempt it. I'm not familiar with this harness however most open up to some extent to make it easier to get the dove into. Some open with velcro part way down, others with snaps for example. General Grant harnesses open all the way out so you place the dove squarely on it and wrap it around the dove. Whichever you use, don't force the dove into it. If it gets fidgety, stop and start over. After you've done it a few times, he'll get used to what he is supposed to do and will settle down.

Many dove harnesses are better used when two sets of hands help put the dove into the harness. If you have an assistant that is fine. If you don't, change the type harnesses you use. They are not all alike. Find what works for you.

Good Luck!

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

Hey guys - I was just reminded about this topic.

I can use this harness on my bird fine now.
He is content being placed into it.

There ya go man. They get it after awhile.

When I first used this style holder, I had no problem with it...but soon my doves could actually open it up my moving their wings. Eventually I had to make some modifications to it. Now it's more like Tony Clark's holders. Goes to show you, you really have to find what works for you.

Hi Baluk

For Norm's dove bags, I personally feel more snaps are required.

Currently, there is about 3 snaps....in the past I have about 3, I modified to 5 snaps, cutting away the cloth loop...just punch a hole in the fabric will do...also you need to trim the tail feathers.

Currently I am using modification of Bruno Ray's bag & very pleased with it.

There are many more out there....hope this helps

Warnest Regards
doveboy

Dove-boy, if you have to trim the tail feathers to fit in the prop or bag, then it is too small for your bird. Trimming tail and wing feathers should never be necessary except for a minor cosmetic adjustment once in awhile.

Yup, I agree, that's why I switched to modificaion Bruno Ray's Dovebag with combination of General Grant & Greg Frewin's opening method

I hate to trim tails, but personally I felt Norm's bag is a little to small in length, but the material is great...very smooth....in fact, I have 3 Shimada's orginal dove bags..sewned by her ex wife Denna....it was also too small too...not mentioning the material is cotton...opps

I also own several General Grant's bags...they also need to trim tails...it is a great design & smooth material, but a little short...I used to purchase additional materials from him to cover the tail.

used to custom made dove bags from Materials bought from SILKSRUS, is a pity they stop their business....Jason Byrne, Jonathan Davis Bass, Victor Cephas....many others used their materials & silks for the bags....contacted them a few times, now they have switched business

Hope this helps
doveboy

You shouldn't have to trim tails with a General Grant bag. It's open at the back so the tail can protrude. That shouldn't matter if the steal is done correctly. All should be hidden within the silk, ribbon or whatever you're using to make the production.

Hi Dave

Personally I prefer to have the dove totally hidden...cos with a red silk...steal a red dove bag....with the dove tail protrude out....it is not 100% clean...just 1% of the white flashing give the trick away.....maybe with white silks & white bag...still possible....just my personal view....anyway, General Grant did trim all his bird tails...& all the marketed great dove bags by Andy Amyx, Tony Clark & Amos Levkovitch all covers from head to tail...without having to trim the tails...

Thanks for the advice
doveboy

You're correct that there is a chance of the tail showing however, if done correctly, the dove should be hidden completely. Now if your dove has an extremely long tail and more than an inch or so is showing, then a little trimming might be in order. I just personnally don't like to trim the tail or wings for any reason. Just my preference. Kind of like if you have a shoe that doesn't fit, you don't cut off your toe, you get a bigger shoe.

In Victor Cephas's dove lecture- the traditional way of stealing a dove bag is pull it up from the body....the method...even the tails are fully exposed, cannot be seen...cos is hidden behind the silk.

But the con is layman knows something fishy is going on....hence now most of the dove workers pull straight out from the body...instead of up from the body...the correct method as shown by both Shimada & Victor....this is very deceptive...but needs the dove tail to be totally hidden...cos is straight out...the audience are seeing straight....assuming no stage...if the traditional way, then think is fine even the full tail is expose...just my personal view

Warmest Regards
dove-boy

Disagree this time. The best way is to pull straight out however, as your hand holds the silk and grasps the load as it comes out of the pocket, the silk should naturally fold around it as it comes out. Done correctly, the entire tail could be outside of the bag and not be seen. Remember, right hand steals the left load and left hand steals the right load. There should be plenty of cover. If you do a steal and drop your hand as Tony Clark does sometimes, the tail may then be seen. You can see the tail of the bird he uses in his video.

Hi Dave

Thanks for sharing & giving me some many advice, deeply appreciated

Just a personal comment Tony Clark is my idol since young...used to like & copy his act...unknowing is wrong in the past....anyway, when Tony's dove bag covers the dove from head to tail......but sometimes, as you mentioned...he drop his hand after stealing the bag....it is not the tail of the bird seen, but is actually the Bag tail...this can be seen on Hank Lee conclave 94 video....that's why, now most doveworker added a piece of silk fabic, matching the silk...so with the tail of the bag sewn with silk, the problem is solved

As for stealing the dove out straight, Amos's & Shimada method ..e.g may cover the tail cos they wrap the silk around...but in Rick Thomas & Lance Burton steal..perhaps this can't cos they did'nt wrap the silk round...hence this depend on individual stealing method.

Just sharing my own opinion....hope to see your act one day, I am sure is great

Warmest Regards
dove-boy

Good conversation, Dove-boy. I have never seen a dove bag that had a different color at the tail end as you describe. I have several of Tony's and they are all the same color head to tail. You're correct though, it's all in presentation and personal preference.

There is a dove bag ( very ) easy to place a dove in, and there is the invisible harness, made of a ribbon type material. This is the way I have learned it. Through the years I have noticed that others use diferant terminology. Now I am not saying others terms are wrong, the terms just make sense to me, although they are both retaining or ( harnessing so to speak ) a dove from release. I would sugest taming your doves more and practice puting a latex dove into a bag type harness and the same for an invisible harness. You will get the hang of it after doing it 100 times or more ha ha.

Thanks larry.

But may I point out this topic was from March - April lol.
I got my dove to go in perfectly now...