I have to say some of the L&L series shot with that horrible tacky false bookshelf backdrop!!

DavyBoy

Hands down, these are the MOST boring DVDs I've ever seen!!

Doc Eason Bar Magic 1-2-3
Jeff Sheridan Volumes 1-2-3-4
Pyro-technique pasteboards
Card Stunts
Ted Lesley Mind reading series

I couldn't even get threw the Doc Eason tapes cause they were soooo boring!

Card Stunts - boring? Surely you don't mean Greg Wilson's Card Stunts, do you? Reasonable minds could differ on the others but Cards Stunts...I don't think so.

Gianni

Ammars ETMCM and ETMMM are not all that boring but their not all that exciting (except for the magic which is excellent) but for me ETMTM is like pulling teeth (once again great levitations though).

When I purchased it I made the mistake of thinking it was going to be like all the other series.

But then he gets going on the history of thread, securing thread, accessing thread, transporting, storing, the different reels, how if effects society, blah,blah,blah... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Ok come on on here, Michael Ammar, What is up with that? I never once thought Michael was boring at all. I do have to say Tabary in on the list for explaining the moves but,i love watching him do his stuff. I also think Ray Grisimer, even though he is pretty good with his sweet old tricks(All ending in Y.LOL) Kinda put me to sleep.

Brad

-grinz-
I felt asleep watching Larry Jenning's Thoughts on Cards. Oh well, anyway, I heard Michael Ammar broke his thumb while learning the long distance spinner,altho that kinda digresses from topic. Just wonder how he applied that much pressure with his thumb.

This post cracks me up… it’s easy to criticize with absolutely no thought but MUCH harder to criticize in a way that makes our art GROW. Why don’t some of you OFFER suggestions as to how these videos/DVDs can be IMPROVED and made less “boring” than just giving a lame “this sucks, this puts me to sleep, to this is boring” post. Is the purpose of these videos/DVDs to teach or to entertain you? Would you rather have this knowledge from Ammar, Roth, Daryl, Nash, etc. imparted OR would you rather sit back and be able to get a few laughs? To me, we are clearly missing the point of these items because we are spoiled (who would have thought 10 to 15 years ago that such names would ever share their closest secrets with us). Also, I personally think it is pretty lame to criticize these guys with no suggestions of what “could” have been done to improve them – don’t you think that Ammar, Harris, Daryl, Nash, etc. READ these boards? How would YOU feel if you put the time and energy into what is supposed to be TEACHING videos/DVDs only to have some shortsighted “it was boring” post thrown in your face. How would you feel/where would you be if it wasn’t for Ammar, Harris, Daryl, Roth, Nash, etc.? What would YOU have done to make a video/DVD? Do you have any experience in doing this? Do you know how HARD it IS to get legitimate reactions when people are placed before a camera? Are you making assumptions that are simply WRONG (ex. People on this board thought and posted that the reactions on Wonder DVDs were prompted but I was there and can absolutely assure the reactions were incredible, very real, and cool to watch). It USED to be to be that instructions came as mimeographed typed instructions with no detail, no illustrations and that such names as Roth, Ammar, Nash, Harris, Malone, etc. would NEVER share the way they have now. It used to be that you had to EARN the right to learn some of these secrets. It’s EASY to criticize with absolutely NO thought of how YOU would have made it better. So shouldn’t we be THANKFUL or at least be professional enough to offer suggestive, positive criticism that moves us FORWARD.

Tim Trono

What Tim said.

Tim,
people allow to say a video is boring without giving a constructive review (does every time you say a movie is boring you detail the director's mistakes ?). this is a fun post, so please don't take the fun out of it.
mine are: Nash, Lesley (fell asleep twice in each), Gordon, Carpenter, Jennings (fell asleep immidiatly), and Nash again (The Charming Sleep).

Nimrod , Israel

p.s. and Swain !!! how could I forget Swain ?! if you have troubles sleeping, Swain is your man ! 3 minutes of any of his videos and you'll sleep like a baby(never take more than 10 minutes, it could kill you).

Nimrod, it may be a "fun" post for YOU but what about the artists involved and bashed, what about the producers involved and bashed. To me it is juvenile, irresponsible, unprofessional, and does nothing to HELP our art or help others. It is very very easy for me to say such and such sucks and I see LOTS (well over 100 items a week easy) of new items but I can guarantee you that I can quickly articulate WHY I think an item is good or bad. I feel that by publicly posting and thus influencing thousands of people you DO have an obligation and a responsibility to our art to back up your opinion. A negative review is not a bad thing IF it is backed up with facts and thoughts as to why one has such a take. How can there be any growth or improvement if an artist or a producer does not know what the market is looking for or what they don't like. And again, are videos, DVDs, book, etc. in magic meant to just entertain and give you a giggle OR are they meant to teach you, to hopefully progress our art, etc. I feel passionately about this and about NOT being lame because I RESPECT our art, because I work with/around the various artists/producers, and because I SEE how disheartening such lame, pointless, and "non backed" posts can be to an artist/producer. Don't you think that when a Mike Ammar or a Daryl or a Paul Harris or a whoever gets discouraged when they read "this sucks" with no back up? Don't you think that ultimately hurts us and our art?

Tim Trono

No, I don't think it hurts us and our art as I don't think giving a movie 2.5 stars hurts the film making art. this is a quick guid to boring tapes. those are not reviews, and never ment to be. it is what it is: most boring videos I've ever seen. nothing more, nothing less. if you are looking for detailed reviews you'll easily find many in many other places.
does it progress our art ? not much. does it rescue people from falling asleep ? sure does.
but if you insist: there is one reason and one reason only for boredom - presentation. a lousy one.

and you managed to take away all the fun Tim...

Nimrod

p.s. did I say Nash ?

Well, I'm going to have to have a go at this...

My vote goes to JIm Swains 'Miracles with Cards' videos. I really enjoyed the book (and still do), but his tapes did put me to sleep.

Why? Firstly, I'm pretty sure he used magicians as spectators (which is never a good thing), whose best reactions ammounted to "gee that was pretty good".

I know he self-published his videos and book, which is possibly the reason for this failure.

Of particualr interest was near the end of the performance for capitulating queens where just as it fades to black you can hear the spectator say "good cleanup" to which Jim replies "yeah, that was a pretty good clean-up".

While I'm at it, his pass may be one of the best, but the angles, and the distance at which it was filmed was appaling. Even during the explanations the distance was so great that I really couldn't see anything even when he was exposing the moves.

I think Jim Swain has some really great material, which is evidenced by his books and his contributions to Richards Almanac, but these videos were poorly made, and I'm afraid dead boring.

Perhaps Jim Swain should take some lessons from David Regal and learn something about premise. This is not to say that David Regal is my hero, but anyone who can turn the ambitious card into something more meaningful than "hey, look how skillful I am" is doing something right.

Gianni,
Yes, I do mean Gregory Wilson's Card Stunts video. I literally fell asleep in that video. The tricks are really good, but the performance and explanation just board the **** out of me. Same with Pyro-technique pasteboards.

Hands down it's THE ART OF DICE STACKING by Jim Zachary. This is not to knock Jim's amazing talent or the explanation of dice stacking he describes and demonstrates on the tape.

However, watching him stack two dice, then three, then four.....then ten, etc. Well, you get the picture. Each die being stacked was really anti-climatic because you knew what was happening and was going to happen next...ad infinitum. It was almost like the purpose of sequentially stacking each additional die was: "Let me prove to you that seven dice can be stacked". O.K., now let me prove to you that eight dice can be stacked". Etc. Etc. Etc.

I almost got the impression that I was watching a video proof of a "Guiness Book of Records" performance and that the tape was made to prove that the penultimate event had really occurred.

Even if the audience can initially view the first couple of stacks as "magical", at some point in the routine it all starts to blend together as one homogenized repetition. Magic? Dexterity? Skill? Finally, at that point, who cares?

Mike

Allow me to step in here. Tim Trono, I can understand were your coming from and you do have some valid points but here’s my perspective. If you look at my original post I said all 3 of Ammars ETM series were stellar and indeed they are, there content alone make them one of the best purchases I have made. And yes I purchased them to teach me and not entertain me.

But that does not mean that they are lively, IMHO all 3 of his ETM series was rather dull. And I found ETMTM downright boring, and, if you look one post down Bradley disagrees with me. So if Ammar is reading these boards he winds up with two different outlooks on his material one post after another.

And yes it’s true that all you used to get was mimeographed typed instructions and that all the big names you mentioned would never share their secrets. But keep in mind that they are not sharing them now, their selling them, and no doubt they are making a tidy profit doing it or they would not do so in the first place.

Yes you used to have to earn the right to learn their secrets but now you can buy them. Why? Because they are selling them for a profit, which by the way is another good move on their part.

Also, Michael if you are reading this post let me be the first to congratulate you on what is IMHO easily some of the best material out there. I want to thank you personally and let you know that I use your stuff all the time and that I get great reactions from it every time is use it. I also own your introduction to coin magic video as well and will be purchasing your “easy to master business card miracles” also.

Anytime someone asks here at the café (or anywhere else) what would be a good choice for a video to purchase I always recommend your videos Michael among others. However I do not find your videos exciting in themselves. I also hope that you will come out with some “easy to master rope/silk miracles” too.

Oh, and Tim, I don’t see how it is possible “to back” your feelings on a video. I think David Williamson is a riot and Daryl humorous, others will disagree with me. You have some very valid points but this thread was about the videos you “found” boring, not instructional.

And for anybody else reading this thread if you do not own the ETM series by Michael Ammar I would highly recommend that you buy it.