I also have seen Vinnies version and Alan's and completely agree with Alan. Non of the moves are remotely similar. alan credits everyone well.

Jamie Daws

Just watched Vinny's, and it is pretty darn different as far as I can tell. The only thing they have in common is part of the method, which belongs to Roy Walton, who gave Alan's release the thumbs up.

Liam.

Fellas please do not misunderstand me . I am not saying that Alans effect is the the same
but the warping of the cards in the hands or hand has been done way before Alan's
. for examplle
Into the fourth Deminsion by jeff busby
ken krenzell's ever so slowly
vinny marini's warped and restored
warped one is very simalar to Alans work
Howie schwartsman also did some work in the area.
Ropy Waltons effect used two cards
others used money to warp the cards
so in my opinion Even if Alan did not know of this he should at least man up give others the credit they desirve ... because now he does know
warped the cards in the hand is not origional with him period
lo- key

I don't understand your argument Lo-Key. Alan has contacted everybody that he could think of and they've given him their blessings. He's even contacted Vinny and even Vinny gave his blessings. What point are you trying to make here Lo-Key because you've talked yourself into a full circle claiming that there's crediting issues but at the end of the day, folks have all given Alan the green light which effectively equates to there being NO crediting issues thus far.

Lo-Key, Warping in the hands has been done before, no one is disputing that. In the same way that Aces have been twisted, and face-up and face-down decks have been magically corrected, and signed cards have appeared in wallets.

It's not the plot that Alan is pitching as original - that's why he has Roy Walton's permission to release it. It's the method, presentation and astonishing visuals.

Liam.

Just t decided to add to this thread
first let me say my routine is nothing like Alans .I contacted Alan he did not contact me
I told Alan warping the cards in the hands has already been done . as for my effect I credited Roy Walton and Ken krenzell, ken was the first to fold the card in fourths not Roy Walton. In my effect I my fold was differentl than Ken's however I credited ken for his work, because it was his mine was just different.
Warp one dvd hit the secne about two years ago and it is very similar to Alans effect ..
I wrote Alan and said he shuold at least give a honorable mention to others that came before him . if he does not want to so be it..
Lo key and scott Ginn seem to agree with what I said .
I also wished Alan the best of luck his was a very nice routine
vinny

Alan does credit Roy Walton (even got PERMISSION from Roy), David Jenkins (Warp One) and Richard Osterlind (Inside Out).

The routine is only similar to Warp One in the sense that it happens in the hands with no cover card. However, Alan's effect is different from Warp One. In Alan's you simply wave the card and half turns inside out. Another wave and the other half turns inside out. That is NOT Warp One. In Warp One, the fingers of the other hand are rubbed over the card to affect the change. It's a different effect. And a different method.

It's also not the same thing as Vinny's Warped & Restored. In Vinny's effect, the card is pushed through the fingers to affect the change. Again, different effect. There is no push-though in Alan's effect.

Now, if we're going to talk about which variation Alan's most closely resembles, then I would say Warp One. Which is credited on the dvd.

I have gave honerable mentions to those who inspired me in this routine. As I stated to you in pm vinny. Ive done everything ethical that I can and even gained permission from Roy himself who I gladdly consider a friend. You cannot say fairer than that! All in all I have done all I need to do on my end to keep my mind at easy and in such a meglomanic and egotistical trade you will never please all

ALan

Alan I said I wish you the best ...once again I never said the routine was the same I only said the warping in the hands has been done before....you use one hand instead of two hands it is still the same idea ...
remember triumph effect is still triumph no matter how you do it...
no matter what you or anyone eles that backs you on this you should of did more homework.
Im done

Vinsmagic, this is going on a bit now. Alan did all the homework he needs. He credited the routines that provided his inspiration, and sought permission from the creator of the plot. I can't see what you think is wrong with that?

It is NOT a creators duty to list EVERY version of every plot they release something on, just the ones that are similar and/or inspirational sources, as appropriate. Otherwise, the credit section of a publication could be larger than the actual content.

If you published your variation, did you seek permission from the creator of Card Warp? Would you have listed every variation of the plot (or two plots, as yours combines with a torn and restored card)?

Anyway, on-topic, has anyone tried Alan's bonus effect 'The Mint'? If you have, drop me a line (with proof you have the DVD) and I'll forward you a little idea that I've been playing around with...

Liam.

Hey, I wasn't trying to offend anyone--I apologize if I did. I said that I think Alan has some really nice touches on this plot, and I meant it. I never said he shouldn't have released it, just that it might have been nice to mention Vin and a couple of others that weren't mentioned.

Roy Walton's card warp was actually a derivation of Busby's "Into the Fourth Dimension." That's the routine that started it all. Busby often gets left out of the discussion. I'm not a Busby fan, but I do like his trick, and I think he deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Walton when it comes to the parentage of this plot. But he rarely is. It's almost always credited strictly to Walton, who is certainly one of the all-time giants of card magic and worthy of the respect he garners.

Both routines are a big step backward from the original Card Warp. They are more flashy but considerably less impossible and magical. It amazes me how cards guys are captivated by slights and forget what magic is all about.
The truth must be said.

Nimrod , Israel

Sorry you feel that way nimrod.. Different strokes for different folks I guess..

Alan

Vinny in your original pm to me you stated my routine was the same as yours which had been out 7 years before mine. You where not warninting that an in the hands warp had been done before, but the fact that the method was yours. You even claimed a stake the tearing the card to hide the workings.

Now in pm I politly pointed out that all the base workings are credited to Roy walton including the tear at the end which you so ruddly claimed! Now I have credited Roy and I have express permission from him on these moves so on that sense Im all clear.

Now on the "in the hands" point. In the hands card warps pre date you also sir. But the main released version is warp one ( as I beleive your own is hidden away on the top gun dvd) which uses to hands. Ill point out agin that the movies applications and exicuton are a far cray from similare due to the nature of the routines application BUT I did however give credit to warp one as it was an inspiration. then I give credit to osterlin for a similar move on the dvd.

*I DO NOT however give credit to EVERYONE who may have put thoughts on card warp at some point in time or that I did not even know existed untill reciently* as they where not a inspirtion or help in developing my own. nor will I credit every tom dick and harry who claim its all original to them when it is clearly not and the originators who inspired me had been contacted and have been credited.

the * section answers and blows your triumph statment out the way.

So all in all it is clear to see that " my home work" was done and I even got a few gold stars from the teacher on it. Sorry if that seems long winded but I will nto have any one say I need to " do my homework" better when the have no clue on my reserch or are egotistical children at heart trying to get attention or credit when none is deserved.

ps Scott I tried to contact busby to no avail. I had a lengthy discusson with Roy about this who stated he would have a word on my behalf.

My points are across. you'll find they are correct and that my good sir is case closed..Ill be here all week end. Tip your waitrises.. GOODNIGHT

Alan I said folding of the card in fourths was not origional and is the same as mine. and ken Krenzell.
You speak about egos,,,,at least I had the respect to put Warped in the title of my effect because the card indeed warped, and not use a completely different name....
Alan your points well noted and my point the only origional aspect of your routine it the TITLE.

Liam in answer to you no it is not the obligation of the creator to mention everyone for his inspirations . one does this out of respect .

At no point in your original pm did you mention folding the card in to quarters! For the record it was Mr Walton himself who tipped me to this! Now this is you trying to bring in a new point and make it seems like your original to try and seem correct. This agian blowen out the water.

Ego and the name change. Well the name ties in with my presentation and I would like to point out that on the front cover, right at the top it states it is a version of Roy waltons Card warp..... So again... your point is lost.

Now to the "obligation of the creator to mention everyone for his inspirations " comment. I mention all who inspired me on the routine. Again the handling is new. The effect ( in visuals) is new the over all presentation is new.. Man your just loosing here arnt ya! Done mate.. Your done, Respect is there to be earnt not simply warrented. Ive earnt mine from who need be!

In the original Card Warp manuscript, the card is folded into quarters at one point in the routine.

Hey Vin just bow out gracefully I know your work so do others, this is all that matters.These British characters like to stick together.

cheers
lo- key

Nice, a review section turning into little attack platforms.

The trick is based on Roy Waltons, Alans is a version of that just like others have versions, no one can climb on a higher horse because some aspects of their knock off looks like anothers. It is a playing card, exactly how many methods of manipulating a playing card to get a look do you think exist? Any crediting is surprising these days to expect every version ever made to be acknowledged is nonsense....get over yourselves.

Lo-Key, while the UKers do tend to stick together and often say how great a product is that isn't because their pals were behind it in this case I don't see that happening. Card Warp has been done inside a card, w/out the second card, inside a bill, inside a match book, between business card, Alan put together and released his handling and never claimed anything beyond what it is. Oh, unless you are an UKer drop the 'cheers' crap, a non Brit saying it is like a football taking the field in dresses.

Let's not forget the immense amount of work that Ben Harris has put into the plot with his Quirks and Quarks.