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benbv Inner circle London 2471 Posts 
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Oh, right... Of course I understand your point. Sorry about that then, I'll be more careful next time...
If you think my posts are inapropriate here, I would understand if the moderators of the forum move my posts to another section. Cheers! |
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morpheis91 Regular user Philadelphia 155 Posts
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On 2008-03-21 14:06, Joshua Barrett wrote: C'Mon man! You know that most spectators out there would not even notice the deck coming in and out of play unless attention is brought on to it. Think about it if you pretend it is not there most spectators will not even acknowledge it. And its not reqlly anti climactic (unless YOU make it ant-climactic) because the classic T&R's are usually 3 phase restorations why not just make it a 4 phase restoration and make removing the creases just part of the process restoring the card you don't have to call it "removing" you can even say "fixing or mending". I mean with most 3 phase restorations there is no real Climax if you think about it is just the same thing repeated 3 times, Jordan Johnson just throws in another element which make it even more impossible and sort of adds a climax. Those are just my views on this and obviously yours differ from mine so I don't really expect you to agree but if you think about it what I said makes sense.
Wilberto Casillas
https://phillymagic.com/products/chapslick Use code at checkout to save: 'cafeslick' |
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morpheis91 Regular user Philadelphia 155 Posts
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O yes, GOOD WORK Jordan
Wilberto Casillas
https://phillymagic.com/products/chapslick Use code at checkout to save: 'cafeslick' |
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jordanjohnson Special user Hiding in the Shadows 594 Posts
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Thank you morpheis91 Im glad you see the effect for the real potential it offers and how it gives a different element that other T&R don't offer.
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benbv Inner circle London 2471 Posts
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On 2008-04-18 04:48, morpheis91 wrote: To this I completely agree (ok let's say 95%..  ).
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On 2008-04-18 04:48, morpheis91 wrote: Except that the final phase is not from Jordan Johnson... The real new thing is the first three phases. Removing the creases has already been done by David Williamson, Guy Hollingworth or Garrett Thomas... and probably some others before... So if it's just about the final phase, no I don't agree, and it's just a question of fact here... |
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jordanjohnson Special user Hiding in the Shadows 594 Posts
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But again you don't own this and the visual aspect of the creases being removed in the advanced version is like nothing done before
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Tim Jahn Special user South Florida 911 Posts
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OK... I DO have Holy Grail and I HAVE used it a few times.
As someone who has used it I just have to say that (In my opinion) Torn is better. This whole crease thing is a moot point. I mean... I can do Torn and remove the freaking creases. In fact you can do just about any TNR and remove the creases. So What. I like the creases. Lets compare here. Setup: Torn <1 min. , Holy Grail >15 min. Now this 15 min. setup time thing is if you want to make ONE gaff. Unless you want to perform this, Run home make another, Perform it, Run home make another and so on, Your going to want to make more than one at a time. That takes the setup time up. You can easily spend an hour making up enough gaffs to last for a few performances. And if you want to do the advanced handling with the "Visual" removal of the creases, The setup takes even longer. What you need: Torn - A deck of cards. Holy grail - A deck of cards, a can of stuff, A bottle of stuff, Scrap paper, and a place to do the setup. 'nuff said. The signature: Torn - the spectators signature is VISUALLY restored and in view the entire time. Holy Grail - Well... If you have it you know. But the "Signature" is not in view nor is it restored. The reactions: Torn - Awesome reactions. Every time. Torn is a real "WTF effect and I have not had a spectator yet who has not examined the card throughly and tried to pull it apart. (Thats the fun of creases). Holy Grail - I admit that I got pretty good reactions with Holy grail. But they just were not on par with those that I get with torn. Handing out the card: One of the things I love about torn is that the card is handed out IMMEDIATELY after the restoration. As soon as the last piece is restored, The card is in the spectators hand. No funny moves, No changes, No switches. With Holy grail you restore the card, When the spectator is reaching for it you say "WAIT..Lets take it one step further" and proceed with what ever you do to clean up. Clean up: Torn - You pick up your marker and put it in your pocket. that's it. Your done on an off beat. Holy Grail - I suppose it just depends how clean you want to be and if you plan on using your cards for another effect. Either way.. It ain't just a simple ditch. All in all, I like Holy grail. It does have its place. Does it live up to its namesake? No it doesn't. Torn is still on top. Now before you waste your time typing, "But if you try it this way" or "You must be doing it wrong" or any other suggestions that might spring to your mind, Just know that I have used this and Torn. I've made up my own mind and my opinion will not be swayed. If you get "Mindblowing" reactions with Holy grail. Man that's great. I'm glad you like it. But its not for me. There are other TNR's out there as well. These two are not the only ones available. But for the purpose of doing a comparison I used Torn as I also have extensive knowledge of the effect. Tim
Andrew, (ASW)
The effects on the DVD and lecture notes are far beyond your abilities. (They require mastery of the mechanic's grip.) It would only break your heart. Sincerely, Darwin Ortiz.......(This post has got to be in my top 5.) |
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morpheis91 Regular user Philadelphia 155 Posts
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On 2008-04-19 18:31, goldeneye007 wrote: Yes you are right about it he is clearly not the first to remove the creases but it still adds to the "impossibleness" to the trick and for me removing the creases one at a time gets AMAZING reactions. I've had people flinch after each one I remove. Although the restoration for the first 3 phases is effortless I seem to put a whole lot of effort in each restoration and for the last piece I use the line from torn "this one is the hardest because there are two edges." That builds it up for me. But I am sure that with the right presentation either one is great its just a matter of taste and or preference
Wilberto Casillas
https://phillymagic.com/products/chapslick Use code at checkout to save: 'cafeslick' |
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benbv Inner circle London 2471 Posts
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No, I do not own Holy Grail, but this surely cannot prevent me from saying that removing the creases is not new... C'mon the GLOBAL method is always the same even if the techniques can be different.
Anyway, like Tim Jahn said, it's really not the main problem here. Morpheis91 SEEMED to say that it was a new thing (at least it was not clear: "Jordan Johnson just throws in another element which make it even more impossible and sort of adds a climax"), I just wanted to point out that THE IDEA of removing the creases was not new (you know how some people can get crazy about credits...). Nice review Tim Jahn. |
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Tim Jahn Special user South Florida 911 Posts
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On 2008-04-20 11:03, goldeneye007 wrote: Thank you sir!! Glad you liked it. Cheers, Tim
Andrew, (ASW)
The effects on the DVD and lecture notes are far beyond your abilities. (They require mastery of the mechanic's grip.) It would only break your heart. Sincerely, Darwin Ortiz.......(This post has got to be in my top 5.) |
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Tim Jahn Special user South Florida 911 Posts
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Something that I forgot to mention in my initial post. The removal of the creases in Holy grail is justified within the context of the effect. I fully understand that point. With Torn, (Or any other TNR in which the card is folded before the tear) It does not really make as much sense to remove them. If I believed in the "To perfect theory" It would fall into that category. As it is, I like to give the spectator something to play with. Something that they can touch and feel and that's what the creases do for you.
Anyway, No. The removal of the creases is not a new thing. It hasn't been for a while. Tim
Andrew, (ASW)
The effects on the DVD and lecture notes are far beyond your abilities. (They require mastery of the mechanic's grip.) It would only break your heart. Sincerely, Darwin Ortiz.......(This post has got to be in my top 5.) |
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benbv Inner circle London 2471 Posts
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On 2008-04-20 12:21, Tim Jahn wrote: Good point again! |
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morpheis91 Regular user Philadelphia 155 Posts
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Yes I am sorry if I accidentally implied that removing the creases is new
And I agree that its pretty cool to have the spectator fiddle with it.
Wilberto Casillas
https://phillymagic.com/products/chapslick Use code at checkout to save: 'cafeslick' |
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benbv Inner circle London 2471 Posts
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No pb!
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Tim Jahn Special user South Florida 911 Posts
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Well... Its been a few months since the release of Holy Grail and already it seems to have gone the way of the Dodo. Anyone else out there have this that wants to give a review?
Tim
Andrew, (ASW)
The effects on the DVD and lecture notes are far beyond your abilities. (They require mastery of the mechanic's grip.) It would only break your heart. Sincerely, Darwin Ortiz.......(This post has got to be in my top 5.) |
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restaurant3000 Regular user 113 Posts
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Just watched the demo on this (just once).
As someone who does not perform t&r card, as a spectator who has no idea about preptime. This is by far the best demo/visually stricking torn and restored card I have ever seen (and I've been watching as many versions as I can over several days just to entertain myself). As a non-magician, I would have to guess glue, untill the card is passed back to me (then I'd be killed). Seriously, what am I missing here, is this not the best looking restored card out there? (I also like fuse by jeff prace but again would love to examine the card at the end as I'm almost in disbelief).
Booyah!
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Cameron Francis V.I.P. 7028 Posts
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I think what's missing is that the card has to go back to the deck before you hand it back out. Not a good thing. At least, not for me.
MOMENT'S NOTICE LIVE 3 - Six impromptu card tricks! Out now! http://cameronfrancismagic.com/moments-notice-live-3.html
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gdw Inner circle 4888 Posts
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"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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Posted: Apr 10, 2008 11:03 pm 