He got mobbed because he was so wrong. If someone in a crowded room says " I don't care what anyone says, we did not land on the moon. That was staged!" Would anyone let him get away with that nonsense.

He is so far off base about this Master, it deserves harsh comment!

If someone in a crowded room says " I don't care what anyone says, we did not land on the moon. That was staged!" Would anyone let him get away with that nonsense?

Of course! You know why? Because it's his or her opinion.

By the way, we did not land on the moon. It was staged, and my Martian frined can prove it : )

Man, I'd better keep some of MY opinions to MYSELF. I am sure many would not agree (at first...)

Ted,
Will you be selling them directly?

He's allowed an opinion. But a knuckleheaded one will get response from the crowd.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion. And there are as many different performance styles as there are performers.

The one constant, if you can call it that, in a street worker's world is the people that stop to watch. From those who are polite to those who are downright nasty. No heat, no air condish, no cushy seats. They're there because they decided to stop. The Magi's mission: keep them there, and give them a reason to want to drop a couple (insert units of local currency here)s into the hat.

This is what Cellini is addressing on Art Of No. 1.
And learning from a seasoned pro is, in all cases, faster, and considerably more pleasant, than by trial and error.

I love this poindexter guy...are you from madison ?

koz

As many of us can agree - People are entitled to their own opinions.

I am stating my POV for what this DVD is (or isn't) worth to me and why I hold it in these regards.

Simply put, this isn't my style of magic. Just as a musician can claim he prefers the piano over the guitar, or an artist prefers abstract paintings over a sculptor. This is a matter of preference. It doesn't mean I don't respect Mr. Cellini.



With that in mind, Poindexter, I do understand the dynamic of the situation but, for me, the ends don’t justify the means. If I have to create tension and potential embarrassment in order to maintain a crowd, then I have failed as an artist. Admittedly, this isn't the situation for everyone on the DVD, but for Sonny Holliday and what I have seen in his performance (in person/DVD) Then I did learn something from him.. I learned what I do not want to be like.
Where as it is the goal of a traditional street performer to employ these tactics to get a dollar in the hat, I feel that it is not the only way to go about astonishing groups of people.
I try not to view magic as a challenge or a puzzle for spectators to solve, or say things like " I betcha can't catch me" To me that isn't what doing magic is all about... sure it gets you what you want but it takes what could be a moment of astonishment, connection and a possible message and makes it into a clever challenge won by someone who has been doing this for a long time.
If an electrician were to approach me and say "I bet I can fish wires through these risers and make all necessary connections in the junction box faster than you can" I would say "Of course you can"

Koz and Magicchris.. I will let your posts speak for themselves - I don't think your opinions are wrong, I think they are your opinions.

Wayne2241
If you would like to perform street magic for money in this manner then get this DVD. If you would like to perform for Art, with money as a secondary means then I suggest the works of Nevil Maskelyne, Derren Brown, Richard Osterland and anyone else who encourages you to be yourself and really think about performance from the spectators POV. Take in everything you can and formulate your own opinion. Decide where you stand and how you want to be viewed as a performer.


Best of luck to all


Giochi

I would like to pose this question for the sake of making this exchange a learning one. How would you have handled the situation, Giochi. In your experience, what do you find works and why is it better than that on the DVD?

Giochi,
Your point is well taken. Some of the teachers that I respect most have taught me that which I do not wish to emulate. I've based my statement solely on Mr. Holliday's performance in the video. I liked it. Just my opinion

Koz,
Milwaukee

What works best for me is not what works best for others.. the DVD has a certain value to others that it doesn't have to ME

I am not claiming that what I do is better or that I am better than others.. I just perform what works for myself

If the situation you are speaking of is street performing.. then I must say that I do not perform for 'as much money as I can get in one show' but rather for the entertainment of those around me... The situation is spawn with a different goal in mind.

People can come and go as they wish but I do my best through the effects and performance to keep them there. If they leave or want to leave.. then I don't feel it necessary to keep them against there will and I am not offended if they choose to leave. If I were to gather people and perform with the primary means of getting the most money in my hat then I would'nt be performing the way that works best for me.

I work a block away from where Sonny Holiday performs regurlarly and have seen him a number of times. A week ago two 12 year old kids came in to where I work and said that they had just seen the "worst magician ever"(sonny). They proceeded to make fun of his lame jokes and said all he did was talk.

Over the years I have come to value other peoples OPINIONS-especially those of children.

I was going to contribute my opinion of the Cellini dvd but lost interest when I saw all the senseless bashing going on.

Respect the opinions of others- we all have something to learn.

Lol...well....all of these posts are well thoughtout...the problem is....this dvd is not about sunny holiday...its about what sunny holiday is doing...its not about his jokes..its about the system...talking...promising great things to come...a standard tactic of most street performers...we did not put sunny on there so you all could marvel at his magic...we were simply showing how this is done...and sunny did it text book...as the jugglers and all the others on the dvd..the dvd was never meant to be a magic dvd...

heres a thought for you....gio...who I'm beginning to gain respect for by the way,,,hes a thinker..gio...you are a thinker..i appreciate that..but...
you talk about art...well ...there is no art with out money!...PERIOD...if you are off working some job and not working on magic you are likely getting better at your job but not better at magic....so, using this dvd and the formula taught on this dvd you can go out and make a living while working on your art...money is imprtant....my issue about this is this...howcan you go and say...this dvd is worthy of only 1 out of 10....because it wasn't your cup of tea....you should review the dvd with this in mind...is the message a real message...is it true...and is produced and taught in a manner of professionalism...which it is....this dvd has gotten great reviews and yours is the first bad one....sorry you didn't like it...but this is a quality product and is certainly worthy of owning if you are interested in learning about performance on the streets...you said your self you do not perform for the money....at least getting the big hats...well....some of us do...i perform for money...i need money....i make a living out there....and money is important....it feeds my children...it keeps form getting a real job...and this theory of performance...not sunny holiday...but building an audience in the manner its taught....on this dvd...allows me to see the world...and if you paid attention to the real message here it would allow the same for you.....
in addition, cellini certainly encourages people to be them selves...he doesn't say copy this act...he says...here are some lines....these lines work...you need these kinds of lines...whatever the lines are to handle these situations...lines that fit your personality...hes trying to make someone who doesn't understand to understand...gio, keeping an audience is important...its about money sometimes....cellini encourages you to find your own style of magic...to develop your own character...he talks about that...you weren't listening...go back and watch it again...you will what I'm saying is right...you were likely disappointed that it wasn't a magic dvd...we never said it was...its mopre imprtant than that....its not about the tricks....its about the presentation of those tricks...i beleive after reading your posts that you understand that...you are a bright guy...i'm surprised you don't get it...but its ok...not everyone does

koz

By the way...i'm gonna buy the osterland dvds becaus eof your posts....sounds like great material

koz

Hey, everyone, I love a good spirited debate and love that we live in a country ( and are in a Café ) that allows that, and David (Deceptionguy ) is entitled to his opinion without getting mean e-mails.

David, thanks for offering your opinion!!!!

And GO CELLINI AND KOZ!!!!!!!!!!!! You guys rock!!!!

Thanks Chris!

Yeah, go KOZ! Go and get these things released already! I too impatient! : )

They are at the relicators as we speak...with in a month...i just billed murphys magic for the product..its close...hope you guys like them....haven't priced them yet so don't ask....

koz

OK...So how much???

Couldn't resist.

How about I just send you a hat full of money and just let me know when they are ready?

Sounds good!

koz

Koz, I see where you are coming from and I respect that. I make my income mainly from booking shows and private partys. When I do perform on the streets it is because I love to perform... not as a main source of income. I still can not agree with some of the info on the dvd but I can see how it could be of value to anyone who chooses the lifestyle in which it applies. I respect your POV and wish you the best of luck with 2 and 3.

Cheers

Cellini is lecturing to my ring tomorrow (6/5/04) if he shows up. Anything in particular that I should pay attention too, look for, ask about, or routines/effects I should request be performed?

Giochi, I still think it would be valuable for you to share what your specific disagreements are and, more importantly, how you handle them and why your approach is better and more successful for someone trying to make their living through street magic (especially sharing stories of your actual experiences on the street, your decisions, what resulted from them, and how they differ from that offered on the DVD would be valuable). Even if these techniques would work only for you, and telling us why you feel that, would be interesting, would provide for an interesting discussion, and would allow this thread to become a real source for improvement in the way others view Cellini's work and street magic in general.

Hi Brian:

Concerning the Cellini lecture in your area - this is the third time I've read something about Cellini being less-than-reliable. Does he have a reputation for no-showing?

Ron