Well my point is that that isn't enough info for me to do the trick if I don't have access to an impression device. Where to find a good one, what does he recommend those kind of things would have been helpful.
Jason

Jason, let your ideas flow. You don't necessarily need an impression device. You can use other methods...(eg. Carlyle's working mentalists dictionary - Denny and Lee carries it) to get your word. One of the better impression devices out there is the Brown Hornet by John Riggs.

Thanks, David. The problem I'm facing is one that many in my specialty face. Not knowing where the information is. Once pointed in a direction I can go in search of it. Again thanks for the signpost.

Jason

The most simple way is probably a centre tear or a peak. Maybe look into work by Richard Busch---'Peak encores' for one.

If you have Corinda's 13 Steps, you could even use a centre tear from that, or force a card and use that, or maybe a booktest. The list is almost endless.

Luke, thanks for releasing your work. I realy like it, the books and DVD. Keep on going with the good work!

Synchronized sounds exactly like the Watch routine on volume 1 of the Osterlind series. Is it any different?

Michael

I'm sorry, but this is not beginner's material. To have to ASK about gathering information is a sign that you are not ready for this material. There is a very basic technique for this in most beginner's magic books. There must be a quintillion discussions about various methods on this board alone.

It's not just about being pointed in the right direction.

A long time ago the mighty Pat Page was asked at a convention if he knew of resources for a particular brand of magic. His reply: "If you want to know, you will find out." The boy didn't get it as he asked again and Pat gave the same reply. My memory is that this went on 3 or 4 times. I don't think the boy got it.

Regards,

David.

David,
I think this is unfair. Luke's DVD does not state it is advanced material. The recent glut of magic and mentalism on the market makes it hard to figure out just what to do.

You are a big fan of saying "If you have to ask,then you don't serve the information." This elitist attitude is not helpful.

Your story of Pat Page is interesting, but what if someone on the Wonder Wizards list said the same thing to you when you were asking for information?
Probably hurt your feelings a little eh?

Jason, I think a great resource for you to study and learn would be Anneman's "Jinx" or his "Practical Mental Magic." You can pick these up for a song.

I paid $30 for the digital version of "The Jinx" and it is solid gold. Anneman was brilliant, and his routines, with a little thought, can be used today.

There are chapters on center tear, billet switches, everything you could want to know.

Check with dealers in your area.
Hope this helps,
James Linn

Are the 2 versions of "Darker Dai" (DVD and 7 Deceptions) the same?

I wouldn't say that I'm elitist but I think secrets have to be earned.

I also think that people should be aware of basic principles (and this is a VERY basic principle) before rushing off to buy the latest DVD). You are right, Luke's DVD does not state that it is advanced material - but we are not talking about advanced knowledge, are we? Luke's material is not beyond the novice in terms of technical ability and that's the point I was making - that this particular query was about something that should already be known.

It wasn't just the lack of knowledge. Are you seriously telling me that adequate information couldn't be gleaned from a basic search of this very message board with a modicum of initiative?

Regards,

David.

I don't understand why magicians are so possesive with their effects. Tricks are tricks are tricks. Mentalism, card tricks, ring and rope routines, zig zag illusions...they're all tricks. You can get the same reaction from a double lift that you can from a mentalism effect if you do it the right way. It's not what you do it's how you do it. Luke has some great psychological thinking about making tricks more powerful and that's a valuable thing to listen to for beginners as well as amateurs....but the people who aren't "ready" for the DVD will look at it as a few tricks and that will be that. The real advice will fall on their deaf ears and that's fine. Get from it what you want. There so much elite-ism in magic it's disgusting.

Jon

I'm someone that has been in magic for about 50 years, and also someone that has occasionally lectured for and written for magicians. I don't consider myself an elitist, but it's hard to know what level to aim a lecture, book, or video to. If every book with a card trick in it had to explain every sleight and subtlety, they would be far longer and thus far more expensive. Still, if your card trick requires a double lift, for example, and you don't explain how to do a double lift, then younger or newer magicians may not be able to do the trick. So, it's a ***ed if you do, and ***ed if you don't situation.

Mike Close talks about this at length in his new ebook. What's the answer? The magician about to plunk down his money should seek out advice about the level of the material he's considering purchasing. And, if he buys without doing that, all is not lost. Forums like this, magic clubs, magic shops, and email all provide ways for the newer magician to find out the answsers to his question. And, if he has to look around a bit, and find out how to do a move, it's not the end of the world. It's good exercise.

If you buy a book by Wm. F. Buckley, he doesn't give the definitions for the big or obscure words that he uses. You may well have to look a few things up. No problem. Do it. Grow. Think. You'll be better off for it.

Dennis Loomis

Then why don't creators put on their material the level of ability? If it is incomplete to someone because of their knowledge level they should be aware before buying. In my early days I bought a few items and was not able to do it without purchasing further material to be able to complete the sleights. I'm not saying that all sleights or methods should be included, just let the consumer know before he buys it that further material may need to be acquired if they are a novice in the field they are purchasing.

Just my 2 cents
Park

To Park,
You make a very good point. In the old days, when most magic was purchased at brick and mortar magic shops, it was often the guy behind the counter that tried to take care of this. He would try to evaluate the level of the customer and point them to things within their ability and experience range. While he wanted to make sales, he also knew that the customer was far more likely to return to his shop if he got something which he could do.

Today, many of us buy magic through the mail. And yes, we would all be better served if the producers of magic products did a better job of letting customers know the skill level or experience needed. But the purchaser has a similar responsibility. Before sending off a check or clicking that Pay Pal button, try to investigate the product you're purchasing.

Let's take a look at a contemporary product. Mike Close's "Closely Guarded Secrets." It's an ebook and is a marvelous product. Now I know Mike's background and I know he's one of the most skilled performers of sleight of hand in the world. I knew, going in, that some routines would be challenging. One routine: "The Luckiest Cards in Las Vegas" requires that you memorize a deck of cards and that you do a pass. Lots of magicians are not yet capable of either of those things. And yet, the routine is wonderful and if you want to do it, you have to be prepared to work and master those skills. Mike did not "tip" that these skills were necessary. And yet the routine is wonderful. Many will become motivated to master those skills, and they will end up growing as performers. And I see nothing wrong with that.

It's not unlike ordering the sheet music for a piano composition through the mail. Some music books are graded, but many are not. If you want to play the piece of music, you have to master the skills.

But, the world of magic is a little different. We practice deception and secrecy is important. When you make a list of all of the moves and techniques needed to perform a particular effect, you are telling the customer how it works. And, in all likelihood, they don't have to buy the product. So, the creators of magic are caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place.

That's why forums like this one are so helpful.

Dennis Loomis

I agree to a degree, I have many books that when I first looked at them, I was overwhelmed, but knew I must learn some of these things If I wanted to do this material, some of it was so overwhelming I just forgot about that routine and searched for something I could possilby due but as I look back now at them, I have a treasure of information and realize they were not all that difficult in method it was just my lack of knowledge that prevented me from doing them.
Still with me:
This is where I get upset, I have purchase several effects that were incomplete, the creator assumed everyone had particular items (certain color silks, gimmick coins, or ordinary items )or at least had access to them.
Now I live in a very small town (population under 1500 ) so going out and purchasing rubber cement, double stick tape etc meant a trip to the larger city which is a 30 minute drive and if it was a gimmick coin, card or other standard magic utility it was another order or a 2 hour trip to the local magic shop, which I learned to call first as I made one trip and what I needed they either didn't carry it or it was out of stock.
I like to open a package and everything is included or at least be advised certain things would be needed before they could be used. Then I could evalutate for myself if the trick deemed the extra effort to make it worth my purchase.
I recently purchased a trick from a very well known magician creator and not only was a key piece not supplied, I had to purchase this and then gimmick it myself. ( it was very simple, however you get the idea )
I'll get off my soapbox now, and wait for your replys.

By the way I did get Michael Close's ebook and it is a very well produced item. Now I'm off to learning the stack!

I think a point is being missed here and I;d hgate for anyone to get the wrong idea about the DVD. The Jermay DVD does not contain ANYTHING that is technically beyond the average magical hobbyist in terms of sleights.

You do need some cajones for some of the effects, but that is true of much of mentalism, be it surefire or suggestion based.

The "debate" for want of a better word started because someone was unhappy that Luke did not discuss the method he used for obtaining information for a particular effect. My argument back is that he didn't need to as it's one of those "use your favourite method" effects. He was discussing a principle to use to heighten effects that you already do.

It's like when a magician lectures and does a really impressive routine, there always seems to be someone who wants to know "what control did you use to get the card?" and completely missing the point of the instruction.

Regards,

David.

Dennis:

Well said and thank you. I was hoping that noone would take offense at my post and you eloquently answered. I know you face the same thing at times being a producer (and a great one at that) of magic to the retail public. Thank you for a great answer from a topnotch magician.
Park

PS. I use your mini chop cup nightly at my bar!