No, your narrow vocabulary is difficult to take seriously.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/unmemorable

Worldasillusion,

You make this post:

"Totally nice guys?--perhaps. awesome technicians?--yes, in some ways. good card effects?--NO, with the exception of maybe one or two. (indeed, on a few of the effects the methods would be embarassingly transparent even to a lay person). good flourishes?--maybe but I don't really care; nor does the rest of the lay world. The basic conclusion: if you have no force of personality and want to make up for it with flashy technique, you might like a small portion of the material these discs. I was particularly disappointed with the tricks disc--lackluster. Nothing against these very nice guys--I just felt that this thread so far was a little too kind to them. On the penguinmagic forum (where everyone is 14), a positive review would be one thing. But this is the magic Café/ We need to be honest and objective here."

What exactly is your point?

Let's break this down for easier viewing.

"Totally nice guys?--perhaps." - What does this have to do with production value. Why bring it up?

"awesome technicians?--yes, in some ways." - Can you give us an example or are we to take your word for it? Are you a sleight of hand expert?

"good card effects?--NO, with the exception of maybe one or two." - Again, care to provide an example for us?

"(indeed, on a few of the effects the methods would be embarassingly transparent even to a lay person)." - Really? How do you know? Once again, an opinion with no example.

"good flourishes?--maybe but I don't really care; nor does the rest of the lay world." - Is there an underlying theme that you are seeing here? Again, your opinion with no facts to stand behind them.

"The basic conclusion: if you have no force of personality and want to make up for it with flashy technique, you might like a small portion of the material these discs." - So now you insult two people you have never met and you wonder why you get jumped on.

"I was particularly disappointed with the tricks disc--lackluster." - And you couldn't have just said this instead of taking such an authoritative stance on the subject and making yourself look arrogant?

"Nothing against these very nice guys--I just felt that this thread so far was a little too kind to them." - So this is reason enough for you to infer that they or people who like the disc and or their work lacks personality?

"On the penguinmagic forum (where everyone is 14), a positive review would be one thing. But this is the magic Café/ We need to be honest and objective here." - Clearly you haven't been around long enough.

I would love to hear your thoughts, real world examples, experiences and reasoning you have to back up your opinions. Had you done this originally you would not have had to defend yourself in such a way that alienates you from other readers.

Best,

Dorian Rhodell

I hear nothing but good things about the character and personality of the Buck brothers.

Flourishes may not be your thing and that's fine. I think it's very impressive what they can do.

I can't do flourishes, but love to watch talented folks at work.

I think we should all wish them well and give moral support of what they do.

I stand by my original post--the Buck Twins have no force of personality, at least not that they show. Nor do so many of the youtube imitators. That is not an insult, it's a fact. If I thought you were really interested, Dorian, I would provide some examples. Your whole devil's advocate approach is pretty disingenuous. Why don't you tell us all why I am wrong, with specific examples? (I don't think you can because I am not convinced you have ever watched these discs, let alone that you actually enjoy the Buck Twins' material.--But if am wrong, by all means let us know and let us all know why you are such an avid BUck Twins fan.)

They may have wonderful personalities generally. I was talking about their PERFORMANCE personalities. All the viewpoints expressed on these discs before mine, were a little too rosy if you ask me. Someone coming on to the Café looking for a honest review of this set, was not getting it. Everyone is so concerned about how nice the Twins are, and how much moral support they should be getting. But what about the guy who's contemplating spending his hard-earned 70 bucks on this set and who wants to learn some good magic? Should he buy the disc for moral support?

Actually, I am interested. Otherwise, I wouldn't have taken the time to respond. I could have just slammed you on an open forum but saw no reason to do so as
1) I don't know you and;
2) I never thought or said you were wrong. (This doesn't mean I agree with you.)
I just asked you to back up your opinions. Nothing more than one is required to do when writing a paper in college.

And I do enjoy the Buck Twin's material. Am I a flourish guy? No. I'm not a painter either but I still enjoy the works of Picasso. I can't play guitar either but Stevie Ray Vaughn and Jimi Hendrix are pretty *** good. I enjoy their music.

It's one thing to state an opinion. It's another to state an opinion and then a reason for the opinion.

Best,

Dorian Rhodell

You know what? I guess I'm just an old man, unmemorable was never a word for the first 50 years of my life - it looks like it is now according to SOME dictionaries, therefore: I stand corrected.

I won't delete my first post because that seems to be a favorite trick of a lot of Café members and it really confuses those who are following the thread.

You still seem like you have an agenda against a couple of young men who work very hard to perfect their little niche in the card worker's world, and in your haste to minimize their contributions to this craft, you came off as someone petty, jealous and not well versed in writing in a coherent manner ........... and in my haste to point out what I thought was your shortcomings, I came off just as petty.

Though I do stand on my conviction that anyone can write anything if they're not going to use their real name.

Dave

So true!

This might sound totally ridicilious, but you do your sybils and I get average joe to do em sponge bunnies or invisible deck... Sad but true, but you don't have a chance. Average joe just killed em...

True but not sad--rather totally sensible. Sponges and Invisible Deck at least have a point, a little automatic narrative that people can understand and identify with. Can we say the same about Sybils?

[/quote]

You still seem like you have an agenda against a couple of young men who work very hard to perfect their little niche in the card worker's world, and in your haste to minimize their contributions to this craft, you came off as someone petty, jealous and not well versed in writing in a coherent manner ........... and in my haste to point out what I thought was your shortcomings, I came off just as petty.
[/quote]

While I suppose I might have "come off" as jealous and petty, I don't feel that reflects the reality. On the contrary, many of the responses to my original post were indisputably petty (not to mention malicious), going out of their way to insult and attack me on matters having nothing to do with the issue in question.

"Mr. trouble never hangs around,
When he hears this Mighty sound,

Here I come to save the day!

That means that Mighty Mouse is on the way!"

I would definitely recommend The Trilogy, you would be YEARS trying to gather all the info presented here.

To be fair, some of the tricks are kinda "ammmm where is the magic in that?" (as in they would be more tricks for magicians to watch and enjoy if you catch my drift?) but as Dan and Dave said, they didn't put out the DVD in the hope that people would learn everything off by heart, it is there for you to pick your favourite bits out and create your own style. In saying that, there are some VERY good tricks on here as well which are pretty visual and commercial.

The Flourishes and Slights presented are fantastic, many of which I had been looking for for years, the quality of the DVD is outstanding and the way the material is thought is top notch, never seen a DVD done as well as this.

After buying this, I wont be getting any other card book or DVD for years, and that is because this set will take me years to get through.

I also have this DVD, and although I am not a flourisher by any means, I found it enjoyable and a joy to watch two people who excel at their chosen field.
I have used the effect Tivo Transpo and it gets a great response from laymen (I use it inbetween two of my major effects).
There is a lot of information on this DVD and I'm sure most magicians will find some things on here that will be of use to them.

I also sense jealousy from the negative comments. Hell I'm jealous of the Bucks skills. And lets not forget who young they are! I have about 10 years on them. I don't think I'll ever be as good.

Every time the Bucks release something, I think they wont top it off, but they do so in leaps and bounds.

I can wait to see whats next?

Just to let everyone know, not every flourish on these DVDs are sybils.

No. We can't. Sybils are flourishes. Invisible Deck and sponge balls are magic. Two different things, so why compare them? Just because both of the Bucks' hobbies include playing cards does not mean they consider them one hobby. They realize their flourishes are "pointless" (just as pointless as a juggler doing his/her thing, which is why they ALSO do magic, which DOES have a "point". Never, EVER do they do a fancy cut and call it magic. Sure, every once in a while they throw in a "pointless cut", but they throw it in to a trick that DOES have a point.

I suggest you stop talking before you further embarass yourself.

What would be a good place to get you started before moving in to this DVD?

Something on basic flourishing would be great. X-treme Beginners is a very good video that includes Daryl, McBride and others teaching their personal moves, along with the main guy.