Nice article. someone go post it on ellusionist =) hey it could be fun

I think all Ellusionist representatives should advertise that fact. It helps put there posts into perspective.

Casey

Are you saying that high def cameras make better magic? or am I totally missing your point

You're completely right to ask that. I can't believe we were all sitting here talking about the quality and ethics of the content, and we let a comment like "the production value is better now" slip past us without comment for so long.

Of course, what better defense is there to a difficult question than to pretend you heard a different question, then answer that one instead?

Let's see this in the next DVD: Brad teaches something, then tells you which books contain the sleights used or improved upon in the DVD.

Jesus...people never let up on this thing do they?
Ellusionist...Ellusionist...Ellusionist....

("Can you believe the horror of it?"
"What?"
"A website...run by a magician...teaching other people magic...."
"Unbelievable?"
"I know, I couldn't believe it either."
"What site is it? I mean, there's loads that do that."
"Well, yeah...but, this is another one."
"You don't say?"
"No, seriously...it's true...that makes, like, 35 or something."
"Please tell me they don't expose any mystical magical secrets?"
"Jeez man...everywhere. The people who buy from them are officially responsible for, like, 98.23% of all exposure."
"NO WAY!?"
"Yes way...it's all true, I read it in a post on a magic forum just underneath one about the method to the Bill Switch."
"Jesus...I may have to go and cut open my wrists in a bath full of my standard blue and red Bikes."
"Whoa..! Hold up Fella...don't be so hasty."
"Why?"
"Just give me an hour and I'll come round and we can go together."
"Oh, ok...see you in a bit."
"Ok, see you. I love you."
"I love you too.") [2]


So Ellusionist sells magic training.
So Ellusionist markets to new magicians.
So Ellusionist has made some mistakes in the past.

So what?

Are any of you (and I'm talking all Anti-Ellusionist threads and posters, not just this one) seriously telling me and all the other people that wander through here that none of you have ever watched a training DVD? That none of you were ever starting out in magic? That none of you have ever made a mistake? Ever?


And the exposure perpetrated on the internet by the Ellusionist generation; the Underage-Useless-Can't Double Lift For Toffee-Crappy-Little Buggers...terrible isn't it? Yes, it is, it's terrible. I mean, you just can't find exposure anywhere else can you? God forbid someone ran a Magic Forum and there was exposure for all to see. Like...this one for example. I learnt more about what goes into magic just wandering around here when I was looking to learn how to Levitate like...like...oh God, I can hardly bring myself to say his name...in fact...I won't, it's just too painful. Before I came here and some other magic forums I had no idea there was such a thing as a TT, a DL, Glide, Pass, Side Steal..etc. But after reading posts relating to such things it was easy to hunt down what they were and how they could be employed. Luckily, I'm the sort of person who wants to know more, and I ended up getting hooked on magic like a drug.

But that doesn't change the simple fact that exposure - no matter whether you want to believe it or not - exists here in almost as bad a form as seen on You-Tube. Just takes a little more effort to distinguish it is all.

Ahhh...You-Tube... as Mr Ian Swiss is so keen to point out, go on You-Tube and search for the following Ellusionist products and you'll find a whole heap of little pricks exposing them. True...very true. And so we can. indeed, surmise (as Mr swiss has) that Ellusionist breeds nasty horrible little exposers of our magic secrets. Well, I guess it does...especially if you limit yourself to searching for Ellusionist material. Limit yourselves to that, and you know what? You'll only find Ellusionist material. You don't need a slide-rule to figure that out. Even the newbie little arses know that simple search feature function.

Come on...get real. Type in the name of anything or, in some cases, a brief description of what it looks like and you'll find a whole heap of teenage wannabes exposing all sorts of things.

Are they all from Ellusionist?

Surely not. For isn't it the case that buy from Ellusionist, allow Brad Christian to infect you with his "little performance ability, and sleight-of-hand skills at about the level of an amateur hobbyist with, by contemporary standards, perhaps one or two years of experience."[1] that all you can then do is bad magic learnt from Ellusionist itself [sic] Isn't it the case that once you've been stung by an E, that you can never find any other source of magic related material; be it another online store, forum, book, DVD, personal mentor, dime-store magic set or back of a cigarette packet methodology for the coin-thru-cigarette illusion? Isn't it true that those that frequent Ellusionist have no idea that the rest of the world, or it's history, even exists??

That can't be, can it? For if that was the case then how can all these Ellusionist teenagers be exposing material that has nothing to do with Ellusionist?

Weird....got me stumped.





Getting quite serious this, isn't it? Time for a fun break then:

A quote from: In Search Of Street Magic by Jamy Ian Swiss, Antinomy No. 9:

"The general impression one gets of Mr. Christian on his videos is that of a bland, middle-aged, white-bread guy."

Ooooohh...scathing that was.

For any interested, click this link ( http://www.antinomymagic.com/swiss.htm ).
I think you'll find the photo at the top of the page to be somewhat interesting when viewed after reading the above quote.





Since we were on the subject of newbies and Ellusionist:

The first place I bought any magic was Ellusionist as I would have to travel far, far away to find an actual Magic Store. Or a magician for that matter. Since that day I have been sent all over the internet by them and their Forum (and more specifically members on there) to discover magic from here, there and everywhere; books, DVD's, props, theory, history. The only persons not able to use E's forum and site to find any magic other than Ellusionists have more to worry about in their life than finding the original sources of magic effects. As Mr Palmer says above:

"Maybe this speaks more to the educational level and intelligence of the market"




As to the review in question, it was very good.
As to some of the replies to it, it would seem that here - as on other places - the majority of people who want to jump on the bandwagon are either
(a) ex-Ellusionist members who have either been banned because they broke the rules or had a disagreement with a member of staff, or
(b) older more mature (?) members of the magic fraternity who should know better than to lower themselves to the level of kids bickering in a playground.*

*I do not count myself in this group as even with my extended years I am little more than a child. Sue me, hit me, bash me, but just don't take away my Ellusionist dog-tags for CHRIST'S SAKE. They make me look so underground.


How To Do Street Magic has it's problems, sure. The title for example is misleading. But it does give a fairly good selection of tricks for the beginner to learn and learn well. Most people (not Mr Ian Swiss) always agree that Brad Christian is a good to fair teacher (which is surely important in training DVDs), and that - this DVD for example - is good for a beginner. Which is what it's intended for. Anyone of intermediate level or above would know not to buy it. It even says on the product page (and always has as far as I'm aware) that it is designed to take the beginner from 0-60 fast. Now, whether you agree or disagree with that statement or its intent (again, like Mr Ian Swiss), the bottom line is it states - Beginner. So if you're not a beginner and you spent money on it and don't like it, who's fault is that?

I was a beginner and it taught me some neat stuff and got me interested enough in magic to hunt down more advanced material and practice into the small hours.

If I had already sat down to read "Royal Road To Card Magic" or "Card College" and bought HTDSM...then more fool me. What did I expect to find on a DVD aimed at beginners? The method to Raise Rise??




You people are on drugs or something, right?



I do sincerely apologise if I've offended anyone, but honestly....



Rabid Out



[1] Taken from an 'essay' In Search Of Street Magic, by Jamy Ian Swiss - Antinomy No.9

[2] An excerpt from the movie "Swiss Rolls For A Dollar"

So you bump a topic that hasn't been replied to in over 3 months just so you can profess your love for Ellusionist? Good job, this topic was dead.

As much as I don't care for the company on company bashing, I also can't stand propaganda from fanboys defending a company at every turn, even if a product is complete crap. (Yes, Ellusionist has put out some bad stuff. Not to be confused with all bad stuff.)

Agreed. This topic was dead bro. I know you're a big fan, but you were talking about people who bicker like kids in a park, you just proved you were one of them.

Thank-you. It was a good job wasn't it?
As it elicited just the sort of reply I was expecting it would.
Propaganda??
Did you actually read the thread?
And your reply?

Professing my love? Hardly.

Stating an opinion was it all it was. Should I have bothered? No. Of course not. But I did so I apologise. Far be it from me to 'resurrect' a thread that has been left open so people can reply to it just so I can work my evil propaganda....I just thought it was interesting the way the comments were travelling based on the thread's original purpose. I have no real loyalty to a website as that's kinda' stupid...after all, a website is just a website. it's not a religion. And for the record...I hate religion as much as most people seem to hate Ellusionist. 6 of one, half dozen of the other. Swings and roundabouts. A bird in the hand is...no, sorry, that one doesn't work.



Agreed. Topic was dead, once again my apologies. Didn't actually notice, just replied as it was the 8 millionth thread on a forum that I saw that was saying the same thing is all. However, as above, if a thread is not closed then surely it's still open? No?

A big fan? No, not really. It's a cool place but it's only a website. This place is quite cool also, albeit horrendous to navigate. I've read many, many great threads on here, and could always see (to an extent) where it's reputation came from. However, that's neither here nor there....

I've proved that I'm one of them?
Well yes, I suppose I have. It is the downside to such a post and I was well aware of it upon embarking on my propaganda. But in replying to the post that replied to mine, the cycle spins around once more. As it does with this one...round and round and round...



I had a mind to agree with the last few posts instead of post any kind of 'defence' and see what happened. However, that is what I did on the last two sites I tried this on and the results were predictable.


As they were here.




You both have yourselves a good day and once again, if anyone's back has been rubbed the wrong way, I apologise. This is just something that I've noticed over the last few years and I finally decided to see if it was just me or not.



Rabid Out

Totally crap way back in the year 2001. No proper credit were given at that time. Girls were fat and ugly at the scene.

Definitely a money blood-sucking item.

The corrected the crediting issue when it cam out on DVD. Forgive and forget I say.

Rabid's first Café post is this one. And so legnthy. Hmmmmmm. lol

Rabid out? I hope so!!

Ha...thanks Timj32.

It's always great to meet someone with such a terrific sense of humour.
South Florida....? Nice. I went there once, it was cool. Bought a Marilyn Manson cd.
Saw a girl with enormous breasts and a tattoo that said "Stairway To Heaven" on her belly.
Saw a dog wearing a leather jacket, which was even more odd as it was raining that day and it's owner was walking around with a bare top half. Had a burger in Burger King. Was rubbish. Had a milkshake in McDonalds. Was even worse. Got hammered in a bar after eating too much chinese food. That was fun.


Mr Kavanagh,
I'll endeavour to make any more posts shorter in their length and less abrasive in their content.
Well...I say I will, but let's face it, the world is simply not the place we wish it was, is it?
If it was then I would have arms the size of Arnold Schwarzenegger, a bank balance with too many noughts to count without your eyes going funny, and a steady stream of bikini clad babes wandering past me with their clothes falling off at opportune moments.

Instead I have a some cases of bikes, some sponge balls and a pair of D'Lites with dead batteries.

On a more positive note: I've made some great new friends here so I'm a happy puppy.


Rabid
--------------
Tip o' The Week:

Eat corn. Not corns.

I just found it odd your very first post was about this old thread. Do you work for or are friends with Brad? Just curious. I like Brad and his work, I just find folks that have one post and post like you did are friends with whoever is being critiqued.

You know my name and what I look like, yet you remain a mystery.

No Sir, I neither work for or have had any contact for Mr Christian, save for he replied to a post of mine once.
I have one post because I'm a busy guy, got a few ad agencies on the go, have spent most of my time in magic on Ellusionist (forum wise) as that's where I started out and have met a lot of good people through it.

Have drifted this way several times over the last few years (as The Café is renowned as the place to be) and as I mentioned, have read many great threads and posts by many great people.

The old thread...yeah, well, I did apologise for that. I was drifting around when I should have been in bed with my girlfriend, smoking a smoke, downing a beer and I was on a bit of hunt for E related material as it seems to be all over the place and I have never understood the fascination with getting at it...save for the aforementioned ethics/crediting whatnot that have been mentioned before and addressed. I saw this one, read it and it just happened to be the one that I replied to. I realised by the end of it that it was actually my first post here (as I said, I've hung around for a while reading reviews and whatnot...this is pretty much the first place I come to when I hear of something new and interesting) and that it could....possibly....only ...just...be taken as a massive dig. Two things then occurred to me at the same time;

1) that I'd spent long enough typing it out that to hell with it all, I was submitting it and

2) I didn't really care one way or t'other if it was seen as a dig as I really wanted to test out the "Back E" train of thought I'd had for a while. It had worked exactly as I had supposed it would on other places and I wanted to see what the outcome here was.

I find it funny that in an art (and God I loathe that word) that is so shrouded in mystery and takes so much dedication to master (and more than likely, many never will...I know I won't...but I spend most of my time out of my tree on drugs, alcohol and the music of Leonard Cohen to ever be able to practice enough...but then everybody knows that) that people are reduced to bad-mouthing everything all the time.

Yes..I know I was sorta' doing the same thing, but in my defence I did it on purpose and I find it amusing that people react the exact same way on one forum to another. Ellusionist forum included. I suppose it';s because of their moderation and 'heavy-handedness' that other sites aren't mud-slug like theirs is...who knows? What I do know is that when you read the same argument again and again and again...it gets very tiresome. E this, E that, Brad....what a sod...etc. And then Bob Johnson comes on and addresses a post and gets flamed for it later on by people who are just out for a bit of E baiting.

To anyone of even mediocre intelligence, Mr Johnson was referring to this:




That he failed to address the other posts about the product is not really his problem, is it? He didn't make it. He makes no money from it. He doesn't benefit from it. What he can do is point people to some knowledge they might not be aware of, namely that Ellusionist produced material no longer has girls in black and dodgy production. Some may say it does...but that's just nit picking.

That this was then brought up as a negative later on in the thread was one of the things that struck me. It was pointless.

The reason I posted originally has already been mentioned, so I won't go over that again. But believe me...if I worked for E I would be sitting back laughing at all this whilst counting my vast sums of cash made off the innocents that are lured to my web every day...as that is what seems to be the general consensus of the place.



I do know your name...and, if your picture is genuine, your face also, tis' true.
But I'm about as much a mystery as I am a bag of crisps...and believe me, you wouldn't want to see my face.


I'm an ugly sod.


Many thanks for your reply.

And I meant what I said (although I'm not completely convinced I've achieved it here), I will try and keep my tongue and not rub up anyone the wrong way. I'm really not as bad as I come across.



Well....ok then, fair dues...

That's not true at all.




Rabid
--------------
Tip o' The Week:

Eat corn. Not corns.

Query: Since the Café staff (and Café members) are always telling a person to "do a search" and to not open a new thread on an existing topic, I'm kind of blown away that Rabid has been given so much grief for doing precisely that. Topic threads do not become inactive (and thereby dictate the start of a new thread) merely by being 4 months old.

I can see it now...had Rabid started a new thread on this subject, he'd be castigated and told to "do a search"!! Geez! A guy just can't win.

Just, IMHO.

Mike