Hey Tom,

First time at the Café,One post and you decide to make it in this thread.

Strange.

Tom or should I say J wessmiller...MWA HA HA HA HA HA

Why do people say they are going to give their opinion and THEN give it..

Why not give it with out telling us your going to give it.

Those people think their opinion matters so much that they build it up as if it is going to be something we all are desperate to hear..

One word - EGO!

Tomasio,

I am sure that Jeff is passionate and that has never been questioned by anybody in this thread. As far as not buying the DVD is a buyers decision and this decision has not been made in a vaccuum by myself.

Yes, I did view the trailor and from the trailor helped form this decision. Why learn second dealing or bottom deals from someone whom cannot do any better than myself. Secondly, riffle stacking cannot really be taught except for the card sequences. Yes, his riffle stack was pretty good although I know it is only a matter of practice to develop this skill and a lot of practice at that. It comes down to a conscious decision on my part whether or not I want to devote the time to develop this skill. The mucking was good but not really of much interest to me at this point.

Additionally, when I look over the contents of the video and what is taught, I either already know these sleights or have numerous amounts of literature or other sources that explain these sleights in much greater detail than a couple of minutes of explanations. For me, whether or not I view the whole DVD, taking into consideration of what I have seen on the trailor and what is taught in the contents, there is not much value for me.

Having said that, if this was taught by Ortiz, Vernon, Forte, Carpenter, etc... then I would defenitely reconsider since I know that I would be getting something from a proven expert.

This is not to put Jeff down since he is fairly good, it's just that I feel that his release of the DVD is premature with his current skill level and knowledge.

I hope Jeff the best and hope that he continues to become top notch. Althoudh wishfull thinking does not guarantee success on our parts. It's up to him and talent as well.

Dave

Is there going to be a second volume?

Weapons of a cardshark 2?

There most likely will not be a second volume of Weapons.
be well,
JW

I don't understand why all these poeple feel like they need to post excuses for what is obviously weak handling ability on allot of this dvd.
The bottom dealing could not possibly have been worse and the pass worked looked like a teaching video DURING the perfromance segments. Normally I would stay quite on this one,but this started as a review and urned it no a question fo teh guys passion for the subject. The dvd is a waste of money if you are going to compare it with any of the above listed material out there avalible for learning. There is absolutely nothing new on the dvd, no improvments or new insight so please tell me why someone should pay for this product instead of others on the market where Forte and Ortiz can actually do EVERY move well that they are teaching? The product is "good for a 20 year old", who cares? Then charge everyone 20 year old skill level discount if you don't mind.
In the actual game play segment the deck switched used would have gotten Wess turned into a mess in any card game except for at my gradmother's house.

I give the guy respect for effort and at that age it is easy to seehow he did not know better than to make the dvd, but that doesn't excuse everyone around him for not letting him know to wait until his skills developed along.

The question was not one with the the guys integrity or his passion, it concerned the worth of this project and I have to say it is close to worthless if you have acecss to other products that have been around for years.

Good luck to the kid in the future as his skills develope.

I think that was a to say the least a little harsh, I have this downloadable and I must say I even learnd a few things from this. people who only see the bad side of things will always fail!!

Alan

Clark,

I don’t own it but I have seen the clips and list of moves taught.

Considering there is a move named after him I would say that he is teaching something new.

Ortiz and forte do NOT teach on the cheating tapes they have released.

-"Then charge everyone 20 year old skill level discount if you don't mind."-

He can charge what he likes. Nobody is forcing you to buy it.

The tape isn't aimed for someone with some experience in this area and certainly not for someone who has come FROM the Ortiz and forte works.

Surly you watched the video clips before you bought it?

He just reeled in the fish

Hey 123, adopt the habit of learning a little more about what you are talking about before you show your ignorance to the world. I did not buy this crap, I did however watch a freind get burned by the purchase and he asked me to watch if for my opinion. I hate to see anyone else waste their money so I gave my opinion on the subject, so "reel" that in for a little while.

You are right, there is a move named after him, one with a hand position so unnatural that no one...well, maybe you would be fooled by it. I hate to give you too much credit.

Once again your wisdom is ever present on the fact that he can charge what he would like for it as well, my you are a sharpe one. I made the statement due to everyone making excuses that the dvd is good for a 20 year old. If that is the case then the cover should say "this is good for a 20 year old" when you make the purchase, not after.

Once again Yoda, you are right in the fact that this tape is not aimed for the experienced person. It is aimed to take in the people who do not know any better as far as to where to find something really worth their hard earned money...unless mom is still giving you your "magic allowance." This is the purpose of someone asking for a review, to find out if it worth their money. I think stateing that it is not new and that if someone were to handle cards that way in a real game (with serious players) would get them hurt very badly is just responsible. Not to mention that their are better sources avalible for the material, I would say that is important info for someone asking the question in the first place.

I hate to take even more time on this topic, but Ortiz as well as Ackerman, Marlo and a host of others do teach these moves on various tapes. You could almost throw a dart at and L&L catalog and hit a dvd that would contain what you are looking for. the info is all spead all over by excellent teachers.

123, you seem to be talking out of both sides of you mouth anayway, earlier you were the first to bash the set and not you are in its defense. Pick a viewpoint, or bettr yet don't, that way no one will have to wonder if they should take anything you post seriously. You are obviously out to start some crap with your posts rather than to help someone with their original question. The very context of your last statement "he just reeled in a fish" show that you see no real value in the roduct. If you did you would have said that he sold a quality product and that I just couldn't see it. So thanks for ultimately supporting my point in the first place and please take the 12 year old mentality to another site or at least another thread for a little while so taht someone can possibly reach an eduacted buying decision without such distactions.

As to Alan's post I can see your point if you think the post was harsh, but the bottom line to me is it is the way that I see the subject. I made a couple of very positive comments. I admire the fact that the guy states that honesty if the best policy when it comes to game time andthat youth excuses him from some responsibility, but that doesn't change the fact that I see the material the way I do. He mucked three timed in ONE HAND, you really think this the place to send anyone for instruction and yes I know he made the comment that it was highly unusual, but it is more than that, it is highly rediculous.
As for "people that only find the bad in things will always fail", the original question ONCE AGAIN, was about value. No one asked if we could please find something positive, they asked about getting their moneys worth. Magic needs to get a little more thick skinned, I personally hated to see Mike Close end out his review time with "Magic Mag" because he was honest and honest is not always nice. You could count on a solid review from him without all the crying. No ones opinion is "right" for everyone, but the question was asked so everyones views are welcome.
You state that you learned a "few things", so it is good then? The mentality that if you find one or two items on a tape that you like then it is a good purchase is the problem with magic now. A market FULL of crap has driven the expectation of a product down and that is a huge problem in magic. Apply that logic to any other purchase you make in life and it sounds as rediculous as it really is.

higher expectations with less excuses, Clark

Clark,

"You are right, there is a move named after him, one with a hand position so unnatural that no one...well, maybe you would be fooled by it. I hate to give you too much credit. "

So there IS a move on there he created.I just pointed it out ,dont get defensive because you made an error.

"earlier you were the first to bash the set"

LIE .I wasn't and didn't! I poked fun at him.Saying he reminded me of skelator isn't bashing a product.

"I think stating that it is not new and that if someone were to handle cards that way in a real game (with serious players) would get them hurt very badly is just responsible. Not to mention that their are better sources avalible for the material, I would say that is important info for someone asking the question in the first place"

I read elsewhere that on the product it states that you should not use these techniques for real.Nobody in any business would say that there are BETTER sources elsewhere.Hmmmmmm I'd hate to be in business with you.

"123, you seem to be talking out of both sides of you mouth anayway, earlier you were the first to bash the set and not you are in its defense"

No I wasn't and no I'm not.I just pointing out some of the obsurd things you are saying

Its YOUR posts that are pointless.It even got to the point where you made things up to make a point.

And of course..it was your "friend" that got burned.

I hope this has cleared some things up Mr clarky warky

Dude, you are funny I have to give you that, very entertaining, yet pretty lost still. By the way, I am in no way defensive, everyone that posts here has a right to their opinion on the product, I simply stated mine. The fact that your post seems so rediculous to me is not personal, only funny.

I wasn't talking about the "Skelator" comment, I didn't point that out even though I probably should have in order to give another example of the 12 year old mentality that I mentioned eariler. Maybe you should spend a little more time with He-Man this summer? Thanks for making my point again my man.

You wouldn't be "doing buisness with me" on an inferior product such as this in the first place. You are right it is not his job to say there is better elsewhere, it is the job of someone who reviews a product, if that is what they believe...which was the point once again boss. Even you stated, "Should we give him credit for what he will do in the future?", that dosen't sound supportive of the product to me.

By the way, not one thing in my post is "made up" I've been around for a loooong time and do not have to resort to make believe to say that this product, in my opinion, is not worth the money.

I would like to publicly apologize to everyone here for overlooking the one bad original move that is on this dvd. 123 is 123 % correct, their is one, in my opinion, bad (original)move that would not pass in any card game that I have ever played in on this dvd. There may be games all over the country where the "Spider Shuffle" would fly as I have not played in them all, I can only speak for where I have been...I deserve to be punished. I am sorry that it is so "absurd" to make a point that what is good about this dvd is already been put out in other sources, and that a great deal of it was demonstrated very badly. I see your point, that is just meaningless info to point to someone who asked about the value of the dvd...thanks for keeping me in line on that one 123, maybe we can get you in the position that Mike Close left?

I hate to dissapoint you with me not being "burned" as you put it, but I do not waste my money of every dvd that hits the market. I do have a freind that has not been in magic long enough to know that 95% of what you see on the market is crap. I will galdly admit that I have, in my life time, bought tape after tape that has been nothing but crap material...just not this one thank God. This is exactly my point, a person has to be scared to spend their money in the magic market anymore do to teh fact that everyone that has a gig at "Joe's house of Hot Dogs" putting out their "own" material. Hence you get a thousand posts asking about the worth of a dvd before anyone buys it. There is no trust in this market becuase of all of the inferior products.

Oh yeah, your post did "clear some things up", it mad eit even clearer taht you have no idea what you are talking about.

Best, Mr. Clarky warky.

Clark,

Be carefull, 123 might sick his crew on you. Besides he is a gambling expert because he said so. I guess you get a ton of card sharking experience playing with Sparky, Fido, and Poly. Although I did hear that Sparky took him for all his money.

Doesn't ignorance just make you laugh. I wouldn't buy this product after seeing the trailors and was chastised for giving an opinion since I didn't own the product. What a load of c**p.

Dave

Thanks for the warning dave, I will watch my back for his crew while in the plastic cup and ball section of the magic shop...they are sure to hang there.

I didn't hear about loosing the cash to Sparky...no wonder this guy is so ****ed.

Seriously, don't let the personal attacks sway you from giving your opinion, keep up the honesty that is all that matters, and by the way the whole deal is a load of c**p.

Clark.

Clark,

I have pretty thick skin and am not shy about my opinions. Sometimes they are wrong and I will admit it. With this one I am dug in strong.

Dave

CW
I have already replied but my post was deleted and I cant be bothered doing it again.So I will just sum up.

"I wasn't talking about the "Skelator" comment, I didn't point that out even though I probably should have in order to give another example of the 12 year old mentality "

A 12yr old would not know who HE-MAN was.Too young.

"I would like to publicly apologize to everyone here for overlooking the one bad original move that is on this dvd. 123 is 123 % correct,"

Apology accepted.

I would also like to point out your embarrassing yourselves by the "jokes" between yourself and peterSDT.You checked an old post of mine which was posted to 'stir‘. It seems as if you didn't 'get it' which makes it even better.

Mwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

You are way behind on your post as the last two posts have been deleted that have already answered everything you are spewing on this one.

Love you...

For such a horrible DVD (according to some of you), it's had amazing success. I thought I saw somewhere that he had sold about 1500 of them so far. Hummm....1500 in what, 12 weeks now? Apparently there is a good market for what he did. If it was total crap (as many of the new DVD's are), then he would have sold a few hundred at best. Ask Ortiz or Ackerman if they sold 1500 in 12 weeks.

Doesn't really matter what's on it. If it's crap, it won't sell, if it's good stuff and useful to people, then it will. It's selling, therefore, using logic, which I understand is a stretch for many in this post, that would imply that it isn't crap.

Should I never buy a Hampton Ridge Magic video because it's beginner material? Should I shun at "Dave" from Hampton Ridge videos? Are they crap because they don't teach "Master level" skilled work? Should I not buy them because there are better things to learn from? Certainly, there is a market for Hampton Ridge productions and "Dave". If you are a master manipulator, then perhaps you might like to learn from McBride rather than Dave.

Same thing here. If you're already advanced, then perhaps this DVD isn't for you. If you're new to it all, it's probably a darn good DVD to have. I'm not a card cheat, don't practice card cheating, but I really enjoyed the video? Does that make me an idiot? Nope. It just means I haven't been exposed to Forte level work before.

I'm not sure why is "has to be" black or right, right or wrong with some of you. Not all products suit all people. If it doesn't suit you or your style, it doesn't mean it won't help someone else.

In the end, it's still selling a crap load of DVD's in a short period of time, which in a free market, means it's worth buying for a lot of people. If you bought it and feel ripped off, use the free market yourself and sell it.

I just want to spend one mintute and say that I haven't really gotten the impression that most of the people here view their opinion as definitely "right."
As for myself I only pointed out that I expect more from someone who has taken one the role of teacher than was provided on this dvd. In my eyes allot of the moves here were not done every well, and a smaller % were performed very well indeed. That ratio is not what I am looking for when investing my money.

Maybe I'm wrong, but yes, I do want "master level skill work" when someone is selling me a teaching dvd and I would also like for someone to be experienced concerning the subject matter, as I do not want a magic book (or dvd) by someone who has not done the routines that they are "teaching."
I hate to keep harping on his, but a perfect example is the bottom deal that is on this dvd. Does anyone who has seen this dvd think that Wess should be teaching anyone on this planet a bottom deal? And on top of that charging for the instruction? If you do fine, then this dvd was for you, but it was not for me.

It's just crazy how there is no room for someone who doesn't like a dvd to actually say so in a review section. from my perspective, if I have a choice, even as a beginner I would like to learn from the very best possible, not spend my cash on someone who lacks skills and I didn't know any better. The reviews, in my mind, are more for the new guy than someone seasoned, that is why it is important to me to be honest and let them know there are better sources. Better sources create better magicians and that is what we all want, right?

Would you want a resident to teach proper performance of open heart surgery to Med students or an experienced heart surgeon? (then again cards aren't life or death... or are they?:)) I own the DVD and saw nothing more than mediorce regurgitation at best. I appreciate Mr. W's passion but his passion would be best used to master the material before he attempts to teach it. I wish him no ill will, but that is an opinion from an owner of the DVD.

Fair enough, but perhaps a point that some keep missing is that, hold on, this might be a shock, there are people who don't know who Richard Turner, Steve Forte, and Darwin Ortiz are. Yes, I know, it's hard to believe, but not everyone who's interested in magic is a magic geek and study the craft to a point where they know who's who in magic.

Perhaps, just perhaps, someone doesn't have the passions you do about it, but wants to know how card cheating is accomplished?????

Would I always want to learn from the master? Well, certainly not all martial arts students learn from one master, they learn from anyone with a higher knowledge level than themselves, in which case, there are 1000's of blue belts teaching white belts how to be better martial arts students. Should we consider that the white belt cannot learn anything unless it's taught by the black belt? That's nonsense.

If you bought it and didn't like it, so be it. Fair enough, but it's hardly fair enough to say it's total crap and no one should buy it. I hate to keep explaining economics to people, but if it sucks so badly, or it's such a poor instructional video, how come it's outselling Ortiz and Ackerman combined?

Point being, it's not total crap, it might not be to your level. There are apparently over 1000 people who's level it was appropriate for. A search on e-bay just now showed two listings for it, both by magic dealers, so they were new. So, it's sucking so bad, no one's selling their used copies, I guess.