I have finished these tapes and mastered all but about 5 manipulations only because I thought they were not worth it, but if I were to rate this tape on manipultion it would get a 9.5 out of ten 10. Every card person should get these tapes. It for me took 6 months to understand eveything really well and perform the sleights amost perfect. Now here is my question where should I go from here?

Wikiro

Now practice them all for another ten years. You may be able to do them all, but "mastery" is a mighty big word, and it takes a lot longer than six months.

However, the next step aside from "true mastery", would be to create a strong routine. You have most of the card manipulation moves ever devised and it's time to start using them. The tapes have more than you'll ever actually need for a good routine, and for heavens sake, don't try to fit in all, or even half, or probably even a 1/4 of the moves. I've seen people do this, and it just looks like you're trying to do every move in the book, in what they "call" a routine. And of course, that's exactly what you're trying to do.

You can also go the way I like to go and start coming up with your own moves for the lesser part, and new ways to use the old moves for the greater.

Good luck, you have a long road ahead.

Sable

I have mastered the sleights but not the angles. How long is a good routine? 15 minutes? 20 minutes? At 120 minuts I'll drop on my side. It wont be pretty.

Wikiro

mastering the selights should take u longer than 6 months, it took me 3 years to master the front plam to back plam, with the least flash that I can, and yet I still dont think I have mastered it enough, these are hard selights, I mean, how many can u plam? I say in 6 months you can do about 16 cards with out being noticed, unless ur using manipulation cards than probally more, but I still think 6 months, isint enough for you to call it "MASTERING". well thats just my thought.

-Chris

Haha I can palm 20 now and not have any noticed I am a very fast learner Ive got the pivot down pretty well the only problem is the angles on it. I guess you guys are right im not really mastery level on this tape.

Wikrio

Wow, I have been doing card manip. for over 15 years and have only "mastered" about 10 moves. I guess I am a slow learner. Remember doing this in front of 900 people is a totally different experience.

I will be performing card manipulation on stage for the first time next month.. I finally retired the first deck of Bee's that I had been working with since I took this up.. They had gotten really dingy looking.. I hope I can get the newer cards broken in well enough..

Could you suggest me a good book for beginners about card manipulation ? What about the Ganson's Routined Manipulation Finale ?
Thanks

How much time does a routine take in card manipulation?

To master Thurston's "Five Card Vanish and Reproduction" must take longer than six months! That is one hard sequence of manipulations for me. Mine will not be ready for a few years.

I got it on the second try angles and everything. I really want to know though how long is a routine.

Wikiro

2-4 mins most, i had done a mistake for going up to 7 minutes, as i have said in one of these posts.

one more thing, being a fast learner doesn't make you all that great, its in the presentation. thats where all of the magic lies. sure u can back plam 20 cards, but hey! if you cant do it correctly, then there is no point in performing is there? and dang 20 cards, u must be a super, ultra fast learner, it took me 2 and 1/2 years to get up to there, and i think ima preaty fast learner. well practice, and i hope u get your angles down.

-Chris

good luck with the performance Geoff.

just out of morbid curiosity, what type of venue (sp?) is it?

Why doesn't anyone beleive that I got the slieghts almost to mastery or mastered in 6 months? I never said presentation or angles, just the sleights. Also if it sounds like Im showing off Im not I just wanted to rate a tape and ask were to go from there. I had no idea how long it took all of you so I thought this is the normal speed. Im sorry if I offended anyone by this.

Wikiro

Well i learnt the whole video in two hours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (just kidding, I wish)
Will everyone stop trying to out do each other.

Wikiro,

If anything, I believe it is your use of the word "mastery". I guess you could say that it's misleading.

If I have "mastered" a sleight, but have not done my homework on the angles, how do I know that I really have it "mastered"? that I haven't "mastered" an (albeit slightly) incorrect handling.

Card manipulation is a fairly complex art form. So when someone comes along and claims to have mastered all of the moves from a 3 video set in 6 months (especially given that the video's instructor said that mastery would take many years), it raises a few eyebrows.

I think people assume that the person is either A. full of it, or B. thinks he knows what he's doing, but honestly has no clue.

Personally, I am not going to try and judge you. I am not in NY and therefore cannot see your manipulations to decide for myself what I believe your skill level to be.

I would always be hesitant to use the word or concept of mastery. Particularly when the topic at hand is of a difficult or complex nature. "Proficient" or "good at", sure, but mastery is a whole new ball game.

In closing, it's merely a wording issue. "only a fool claims to be a master" so the saying goes.

best of luck with the manipulations.

I totally agree with you,
well said kallak, well said.

-Chris

Its a good old fashioned theatre, with stage lighting and all that jazz...

cool!

again, good luck with it. do let me know how it goes.

I changed it from mastery to something else I guess I went overboard Im sorry. I was so happy I got how to do the mercury production with casino cards (short corners)I didnt hear myself. I feel like a total...well I won't say it. I am really sorry. I hate it when people do that and I just did it.

Wikiro
Feeling really stupid.


Oh and Geoff I hope it goes really well. Tell use what happens.